Gar

Now that's a shocker. What's next? Falwell condemns homosexuals?

Veil of Fire

"I think after the sick stuff he said along with Falwell about 9-11 he has lost most of his "relevance""

Ya think?

I was actually kind of flattered that he gave me top billing for Sept. 11th occuring...

cydonia

I don't know, what do you think? Clearly he has enough relevance that you're posting in a thread about him, right?

[ May 01, 2002: Message edited by: cydonia ]</p>

ex-idaho

Cydonia, your kidding yourself if you think that the Republicans are not fighting over each other to get to speak at one of his little get togethers. Tom DeLay and his remarks from this past week are a perfect example.

The Republicans are the Christian party now. When Robertson and Falwell started this whole thing in the 80's that was the plan. The Republicans are just going to get deeper and deeper into the workings of the Christian Right. They will not be the party of Lincoln. They will not be the party of smaller govt. They are simply a puppet of the Christian conservatives.

An interesting sidenote: I was reading a book by one of the staff members of Americans United. He cited a conversation he had with a political analyst regarding Republicans and the Religious Right. He beleives that the republicans have not made more of an effort to overturn Roe v Wade, really kill gay rights and seriously push for prayer in schools because if they did these things then those people would have no reason to turn out at the polls.

cydonia

Oh well. Guess i should have voted for Al Gore.

"He beleives that the republicans have not made more of an effort to overturn Roe v Wade, really kill gay rights and seriously push for prayer in schools because if they did these things then those people would have no reason to turn out at the polls."

Well, every one is entitled to their own opinion, no matter how wrong it may be. Is this the same reasoning that the only reason Democrats haven't done anything for poor people and minorities because if they did there would be no reason for democrats to vote? That's just stereotypical thinking.

Back to Al Gore's website. I think i found my new candidate.



[ May 02, 2002: Message edited by: cydonia ]</p>

Bill Snedden

The continued existence of a creature like Pat Robertson is in itself an eloquent argument for the non-existence of an allegedly all-knowing, all-powerful, all-loving deity.

If such a being existed, Robertson's own "day of judgement" would have long ago transpired...

beachbum

The big problem facing America and the thinking people that live there is that Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell and their ilk are still out there distributing their personal brand of bullshit and there are millions of Americans eating up the bullshit as if it were ham and eggs. How do you counter the likes of Pat and Jerry?

BibleBelted

beachbum originally posted:

Maybe with the likes of George Carlin and Homer Simpson.

Seriously though, perhaps I am being naively optimistic, but I feel that the days of Robertson and Falwell as significant players on the American political scene are numbered, and perhaps essentially already over.

They may have, through aggressive activism, scared the Republican party into allowing the tail to wag the dog, but I would not be surprised to see more and more Repubs trying to put some distance between themselves and these bigoted morons. The Bob Jones University debacle was hugely embarrassing to the GOP, as was Robertson's vicious and disgusting whisper campaign against John McCain.

They are also on the verge of collapsing under the weight of their own arrogance and conceit. Falwell cannot resist going on any television show that will have him and invariably demonstrates that he is nothing more than a small-minded buffoon.

Fundamentalist xian TV programming is at, or approaching, the saturation level. D.James Kennedy and others have been openly griping about how they have seen a big drop-off in giving since 9/11 and are threatening to drop stations if it doesn't pick up. Surely he wouldn't lie about this. OK, so he probably would, but I don't think he is.

The 9/11 tragedy, and the Robertson/Falwell assessment of it, was a slap in the face to a lot of xians who were listlessly daydreaming about eschatological "Left Behind" fantasies. The rise of fundamentalism coincided with the approach of the new millennium and I believe will decline as years go by and the "Rapture" fails to appear. I predict that 20 years from now R/F style xianity will be as discredited as McCarthyism and "Jim Crow" laws.

I admit I have no proof for any of this other than this observation: I live deep in the heart of fundie-ism and am quite vocal about how much I despise these two goons whenever I hear their names. Lately, I have been unable to find anyone willing to defend them in anything but the most half-hearted way. Has anyone else noticed a drop-off in their defenders? I haven't seen any of the theists around here standing up for them.

The next election cycle should tell us if the fundies are starting to lose their grip on the GOP in the same way they lost their grip on reality.

Hans

I respectfully, and unfortunately, disagree. People will continue to be fooled by the likes of Pat for as long as our tendancy to believe what we are told to believe exists. As long as their teachings do not conflict with experience they will continue to prosper.

Pat can tell people there is an invisible guy in the sky but Pat can't tell them we live in the ocean. If Pat did they would tell him he was full of crap. But the invisible guy does, and will continue to, survive because it does not conflict with experience. Throw in a little authority and peer pressure and onward to the future Pat will go.

BibleBelted

Hans,

I'm not contending that Pat and Jer are going to disappear. They, or others like them, will almost certainly continue to prey on the gullible for the foreseeable future. What I'm saying is that their support is dwindling and will continue to dwindle until they are so marginalized that few candidates will even want their support.

Joe McCarthy had a great deal more popularity in his day than Pat & Jer could even dream of, yet his public support disappeared virtually overnight when one man (whose name escapes me right now) stood up to him on national television. After this, Edward R. Murrow editorialized against him eloquently on CBS news, and McCarthy was done. I contend that Pat & Jer and their whole movement are so intellectually and ethically bankrupt that they are ripe for the same thing to happen to them. It might take no more than one more person with the courage, and prestige, to blow away the xian coalition like a house of cards.

One detriment to this is that our public political discourse has become entertainment rather than serious discussion. Aside from C-Span, most political programming only considers the extreme viewpoints. Extreme left opposing extreme right. Lots of yelling and little else. Moderates, apparently are not entertaining enough for prime-time. Of course, there is print media and the internet, but among people that read I doubt you will be able to find much support for these morons already.

Perhaps I am guilty of some wishful thinking here, but I would be willing to wager a six-pack of Leinies that we'll see a significant drop in the number candidates wanting their picture taken with Pat & Jer in the next election.

Anyway, a guy can dream, can't he?

[ May 03, 2002: Message edited by: BibleBelted ]</p>