Evil Milkman

No, I'm simply relating to other people's plights in life. Is looking at the world through another person's or group of people's point of view wrong? Sure, their "destinies" are theirs, but being empathetic is a learning experience, is it not?
Did you yourself not use empathy when you came to Christianity? My bet is that you did.

Without a doubt!

Terracotta

Evil Milkman -

First, a question if you don't mind. Have you ever been a Xian?

The problems you raise were a large part of why I have rejected my conservative fundy Xian upbringing. I believe that the verse your girlfriend quoted was from the book of Romans:

The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities - his eternal power and divine nature - have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. Romans 1:18-20

This verse was taught as meaning everyone who wasn't a Xian was going to hell. This really bothered me from a young age. I always wondered about the fate of people like Native Americans and others who lived before and since who had their own religions and traditions and who had never heard of the "true" god or Jesus. After trying many ways to rationalize everything away, this verse in the Bible was instrumental in my rejection of Xianity for its unjustness and unfairness to innocent, good people.

There is a movement in the more liberal Xian circles that says that good people who "have faith," whether it be Islam, Shinto, or whatever, will go to heaven because these other religions are simply different passages to God. However, I have little respect for this belief because it directly contradicts various Bible verses saying that following Jesus is the ONLY way. It seems to me that these people are simply picking and choosing what parts of the Bible to believe and rationalizing the injustice contained in the parts they gloss over.

I don't know if this rambling post has a real point but this is a very real problem with Xianity, and nonbelievers aren't the only ones who notice it.

Copernic

This is the crux of the argument. The question then becomes... How much witnessing is required for someone to become accountable for that knowledge? Is it in discreet measureable packages? What are its units?

If the Eskimo has been provided 3 witness units can he then thrown into the fire for eternity if he chooses to disbelieve but if its 2 or less then his ignorance saves him? Perhaps Rimstalker's polarbear steps in right before the missionary makes his final pitch. What then?


You miss the point. The Gospel is rejected in at least two ways;
1. By semi- and non-Christians it is rejected because they don't like the implications that little children and Tibetian wise-men are cast into Hell because they don't understand, haven't heard, or are not convinced that the Gospels are accurate. They are pleased to think that all good people get to heaven.

2. Many in this forum reject the Gospels because the whole story is unsupported, anti-logical, and a false philosophy (note the other threads for some discussion on this matter) Therefore we reject the idea of their spiritual fate as you describe it anyway.

So you see, this question, and your one to follow about concern about someone elses eternal destiny, is a non-starter.

Semi- and non- Xtians are concerned about someone's eternal fate but don't agree that you're way is the only way (in fact 5 of 6 billion)

Atheists and Agnostics are concerned about people, don't need the Gospels to be kind to one another, and we reject the whole Heaven/Hell/Salvation notion altogether, so your solution is superfluous (although it makes for nice dinner conversation).


Hope this helps
J

Cappy

Hey St. Robert, The bible says many things, and then turns around and says the exact opposite ten pages later. So how can you determine which is true one? I can....neither. Use some better "evidence" than the bible next time. We use it because it's a piss-poor attempt to lull the masses, and can be shown have fallacies and contradictions, you take certain parts out and use them as truth, and ignore the converse. Pathetic.

Cappy

Cappy

Evil Milkman, good topic. I have wondered about that myself. It is a good way to point out the holes in xianity and theism as a whole.

Cappy

DigitalDruid

That shows thinking is vastly inferior to propmpt acceptance of the gospel. Also notice how the polar bear charged at the heathen eskimo, but didn't harm the missionary. Amen!

St. Robert

Cappy,

You claim that the Bible is full of contradictions. Please share one contradiction from the Bible with us.

St. Robert

No one will enter the kingdom of heaven because of their own goodness. The Bible claims that all men and women fall short of the glory of God. No one is deserving of heaven. If there were no Jesus, then there would be no way into heaven.

The only people that will not be allowed into the full presence of God are the people who actively choose not to be in His presence. What could be more just than for God to let us decide our own eternal fate?

Kosh

Giving us adequate evidence to make the decision?

GunnerJ

Anyone else notice Robert's inability to answer direct challenges?