SpaceMonkey

I enjoyed the responses I got about hell. It helps me get some perspective. I'm not going to say what that perspective is, because it might upset some people.

Anyway, here comes my new question:

It seems likely that, in time, humans are going to come into contact with aliens. Although some people question the DRAKE equation it seems valid to me.

Now here's the question/s:

Relating to your faith or lack thereof, what do you think of the possibility of aliens? What would happen(to your faith) if aliens were contacted or turned up.

Surely an Earthcentric Biblical perspective negates the possibilty of aliens?

Thanks for your replies in advance.

Also, if anyone's particlulary good at Math, can you come up with a God equation similar to the DRAKE?

Rhaedas

The reason the Drake equation isn't looked upon as too serious an analysis is because it has so many assumed variables...the possible errors multiply.

The concept though is a valid one...that given enough places, with the right conditions, if we had more accurate data on what these numbers really are we could guestimate the probability of other life out there.

The biggest stretch in the equation is in the last 4 terms, origins of life up to technology-wielding aliens. We have only one sample to go by, and we may be an odd sample. The numbers are pure guesses.

As for what would happen...different groups would handle it differently. The religious would either read the aliens existence into the bible somewhere, or claim they are Satan's minions. Or try to convert them.

Some would welcome them openly...some would wonder what the hell they want. Some would want to attack first, just in case.

I don't know if we are or ever will be ready...it's an obvious next step in losing the geocentric mindset, but it's a big step for society.

Are they out there? I'm not sure...I think there's high possibility for other life, but I'm not sure how hard it is for intelligence to grow from it. Look how far we've come, but how far we still need to go.

fried beef sandwich

Hal Lindsey, the fundamentalist pre-rapture "prophet" states in his book Earth 2000 (the exact title I don't recall) that aliens are actually demons, sent from Satan. IIRC, he believes that demons disguise themselves as aliens and visit the earth once in a while. That way, people think that all the stories in the Bible are based on alien visitors (i.e., Nephilim, angels, Elisha taken up into heaven) and thus stop believing in god. Quite an elaborate plan, no?

Then there was the pastor's assistant at my church who believed that there are no aliens, based on a theological argument based in the Bible. (1) The bible says that Jesus died once to save us from our sins (2) If there are souls on another planet, then Jesus will die for them too. (3) If Jesus died again on another planet (presumably to save alien souls), then it would contradict #1 (3) The bible is not self-contradictory. (4) therefore, there are no aliens on other planets.

Of course, he didn't want to think about the problem of people (or aliens) not ever hearing the gospel and going straight to hell. A couple of indigenous people groups here on earth isn't that big of a deal, but entire planets throughout the universe...

[edit] in the same book, Hal Lindsay admits that some of his predictions didn't come true. But he still considers himself a prophet. AFAIK, he has fallen out of favor with the fundies b/c so many of his apocalyptic "prophecies" have never materialized. Makes you wonder why the fundies don't stone him like god commands them to do to false prophets.

EstherRose

Because the Old Testament laws are not something fundies follow. We are no longer obligated to follow the letter of the law because of the sacrifice of Jesus. We try to live up to His standard but recognize that we will fall short. Personally my position on "do not kill" ooutweighs the OT admonition to kill false prophets.

The list would be very long if we still stoned them.

braces_for_impact

Religion would adapt and attempt to rationalize itself with the new visitors, just as it has done with all major scientific discoveries of the last several hundred years.

Then why is the old testament used so often for justififcation by so many Christians? You either use it or you don't. I don't see god allowing cherry picking. It always strikes me as amazing that "god's will" almost without fail follows the political/ethical system of his followers.

Secular Pinoy

The Rare Earth hypothesis pretty much demolishes the Drake Equation, so I don't give the idea of aliens much thought.

Rhaedas

The Rare Earth hypothesis suffers from the same problem as the Drake equation...we have only one sample of life existing, so it's all speculation at this point.

The last review on Amazon demonstrates this...we are finding more and more systems out there that have our "uniqueness" that RE is centered around.

They may be totally right, and multicellular life on up is hard to come by without perfect conditions. But given how many times it is evident that the earth's life has been thrown close to extinction, and yet bounced back, I think life, once started, is quite resilient. And we certainly have little to go by to say that life will evolve only in a given situation.

So the jury is still out...

Secular Pinoy

RE does accept the idea that life is resilient once it started. It's the assumed inevitability that complex-, and especially, intelligent life will evolve that it targets (Sagan got clobbered by Mayr on this issue). The book I mentioned makes that quite clear.

Juries are always out, that the beauty of science, nothing is certain, but if I were a betting man, I'd choose RE.

Rhaedas

It does sound like an interesting book, I'll have to check it out. I didn't mean to give the impression that I was dismissing the idea altogether.

I just think that life is not only resilient, but the evolutionary process is as well, and where there is room to expand, grow, and evolve, life will do such. And I don't think in the vast universe there would be only one window, the one we have, to grow past simple lifeforms.

But certainly the fields of abiogenesis, exobiology, and the like have a long way to go before we can consider ourselves sufficiently knowledgeable in them, so various theories are plausible.

SpaceMonkey

I haven't had many responses from religious people. Don't be afraid to commit.

It's a pretty out-there topic.