Freethought & Rationalism Archive

demoninho · 07-09-2003, 06:15 AM

Hi people,
I need some help with the following:

Do the OT laws have to be followed according to the NT?

Are we all sinners, not allowed to "cast the first stone"? (John 8:1-11).

Is John 3:1-21 telling us only our spirit forms are cleansed of sin so our bodily forms cannot do the execution as mandated in the OT?

Or like Mt 15:17, Marc 7-9-13 and 1 Romans 24-32 the laws have to be abided?

Which is it?

Did Jesus really want to stop the cruelty of the OT?

conkermaniac · 07-09-2003, 07:26 AM

I really don't know, and I'm pretty sure that most dumbass Christians select only parts of the Old Testament that they like and reject the others. For example, most use Leviticus to prove that being gay is wrong, but at the same time, they eat shellfish, another crime according to Leviticus.

demoninho · 07-09-2003, 07:42 AM

Many say the cruel laws of the OT do not have to be followed anymore and punishment does not have to be given because the punishment will come after death (1 Cor 4:5).

Rima · 07-09-2003, 07:54 AM

maybe the funniest laws in the Bible is this one:

Deuteronomy 25:11-12
11 When men strive together one with another, and the wife of the one draweth near for to deliver her husband out of the hand of him that smiteth him, and putteth forth her hand, and taketh him by the secrets:
12 Then thou shalt cut off her hand, thine eye shall not pity her.
13 Thou shalt not have in thy bag divers weights, a great and a small.

imagine if this nonsense is enforced in our life

Rational BAC · 07-09-2003, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by conkermaniac
I really don't know, and I'm pretty sure that most dumbass Christians select only parts of the Old Testament that they like and reject the others. For example, most use Leviticus to prove that being gay is wrong, but at the same time, they eat shellfish, another crime according to Leviticus.

Actually most "dumbass" Christians (myself included) do not take the OT seriously at all. Just a fascinating piece of literature.

Only the "very intelligent" Fundies and atheists seem to put great import into the Old Testament.

missus_gumby · 07-09-2003, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rational BAC
Actually most "dumbass" Christians (myself included) do not take the OT seriously at all. Just a fascinating piece of literature.

Only the "very intelligent" Fundies and atheists seem to put great import into the Old Testament.

Are we to suppose that you treat the (supposed) ten commandments in the same fashion too? Are not the ten commandments a central tenet of christianity? Indeed are they not the very basis, the grounding if you will, of your whole morality system?

Martin

Arken · 07-09-2003, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by missus_gumby
Are we to suppose that you treat the (supposed) ten commandments in the same fashion too? Are not the ten commandments a central tenet of christianity? Indeed are they not the very basis, the grounding if you will, of your whole morality system?

Martin

If so, they don't follow most of them very closely. Almost everyone on Earth has at one time or another lied, felt jealousy, stolen something, taken the name of their deity in vein, made graven images and disrespected their parents.

Doctor X · 07-09-2003, 03:50 PM

You can find anything you want. This reminds me of a lecture a mentor gave some time back. He was traveling to the South for a conference. He turned on the radio in his room and heard a preacher-man. The preacher-man was preaching out of Leviticus:

"Why the hell anyone would preach out of Leviticus is beyond me. He was going on and on about 'giveth the third ox as inheritance to the son' and then yelled, 'AND WHAT SON AM I TALKIN' ABOUT?!!' and the congregation screamed, 'JESUS!!'"

People will find whatever they want, sanctify it, and then discard the rest as "dated," "an ideal," an "allegory."

Excuse me . . . I see a disobedient youth I need to stone. . . .

--J.D.

Rational BAC · 07-09-2003, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by missus_gumby
Are we to suppose that you treat the (supposed) ten commandments in the same fashion too? Are not the ten commandments a central tenet of christianity? Indeed are they not the very basis, the grounding if you will, of your whole morality system?

Martin

The 10 commandments? No big deal to me. I much prefer the Sermon on the Mount as far as being ideal ways to live your life.

Probably unattainable by humans --the Sermon on the Mount--but one hell of a goal for any of us to try to reach.

The 10 commandments is old stuff ---essentially had been done before in other belief systems many times.

What Jesus pronounced in the Sermon on the Mount was shockingly "new stuff". I believe in the "new stuff". And it is still shockingly "new" today. It is a goal to try and be reached. I admit I am incapable of most of it. I hope the Lord forgives me for my shortcomings in this.

The 10 Commandments as being essential to Christianity? What a laugher.

Secular Pinoy · 07-09-2003, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Matthew 5 (Red Letter Edition, hehe)
17: "Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them.
18: For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished.

07-09-2003, 06:15 AM	#1
demoninho Senior Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 927	Should OT laws still be enforced? Hi people, I need some help with the following: Do the OT laws have to be followed according to the NT? Are we all sinners, not allowed to "cast the first stone"? (John 8:1-11). Is John 3:1-21 telling us only our spirit forms are cleansed of sin so our bodily forms cannot do the execution as mandated in the OT? Or like Mt 15:17, Marc 7-9-13 and 1 Romans 24-32 the laws have to be abided? Which is it? Did Jesus really want to stop the cruelty of the OT?

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07-09-2003, 07:26 AM	#2
conkermaniac Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: American in China Posts: 620	I really don't know, and I'm pretty sure that most dumbass Christians select only parts of the Old Testament that they like and reject the others. For example, most use Leviticus to prove that being gay is wrong, but at the same time, they eat shellfish, another crime according to Leviticus.

07-09-2003, 07:42 AM	#3
demoninho Senior Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 927	Many say the cruel laws of the OT do not have to be followed anymore and punishment does not have to be given because the punishment will come after death (1 Cor 4:5).

07-09-2003, 07:54 AM	#4
Rima Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: USA Posts: 90	maybe the funniest laws in the Bible is this one: Deuteronomy 25:11-12 11 When men strive together one with another, and the wife of the one draweth near for to deliver her husband out of the hand of him that smiteth him, and putteth forth her hand, and taketh him by the secrets: 12 Then thou shalt cut off her hand, thine eye shall not pity her. 13 Thou shalt not have in thy bag divers weights, a great and a small. imagine if this nonsense is enforced in our life

07-09-2003, 03:50 PM	#8
Doctor X Banned Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: USA Posts: 3,794	You can find anything you want. This reminds me of a lecture a mentor gave some time back. He was traveling to the South for a conference. He turned on the radio in his room and heard a preacher-man. The preacher-man was preaching out of Leviticus: "Why the hell anyone would preach out of Leviticus is beyond me. He was going on and on about 'giveth the third ox as inheritance to the son' and then yelled, 'AND WHAT SON AM I TALKIN' ABOUT?!!' and the congregation screamed, 'JESUS!!'" People will find whatever they want, sanctify it, and then discard the rest as "dated," "an ideal," an "allegory." Excuse me . . . I see a disobedient youth I need to stone. . . . --J.D.

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