Plebe

For most of my life, I too thought Jesus had existed in regular history books. A little study proves otherwise and shows with respect to the fabulous tales about him in what is known as the Bible that he is no different and no more historical than say, Apollo as M.M. Mangasarian writes here <a href="http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/m_m_mangasarian/truth_about_jesus.html" target="_blank">http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/m_m_mangasarian/truth_about_jesus.html</a> or in ancient history books as is discussed here
<a href="http://www.atheists.org/church/didjesusexist.html" target="_blank">http://www.atheists.org/church/didjesusexist.html</a>
..."They Should Have Noticed
John E. Remsburg, in his classic book The Christ: A Critical Review and Analysis of the Evidence of His Existence (The Truth Seeker Company, NY, no date, pp. 24-25), lists the following writers who lived during the time, or within a century after the time, that Jesus is supposed to have lived:
Josephus
Philo-Judæus
Seneca
Pliny Elder
Arrian
Petronius
Dion Pruseus
Paterculus
Suetonius
Juvenal
Martial
Persius
Plutarch
Pliny Younger
Tacitus
Justus of Tiberius
Apollonius
Quintilian
Lucanus
Epictetus
Hermogones Silius Italicus
Statius
Ptolemy
Appian
Phlegon
Phædrus
Valerius Maximus
Lucian
Pausanias
Florus Lucius
Quintius Curtius
Aulus Gellius
Dio Chrysostom
Columella
Valerius Flaccus
Damis
Favorinus
Lysias
Pomponius Mela
Appion of Alexandria
Theon of Smyrna
According to Remsburg, "Enough of the writings of the authors named in the foregoing list remains to form a library. Yet in this mass of Jewish and Pagan literature, aside from two forged passages in the works of a Jewish author, and two disputed passages in the works of Roman writers, there is to be found no mention of Jesus Christ." Nor, we may add, do any of these authors make note of the Disciples or Apostles - increasing the embarrassment from the silence of history concerning the foundation of Christianity.

lpetrich

One counterargument is that Jesus Christ had been little-known. In that case, his non-mention would not be surprising.

However, the Gospels state that JC had been a very well-known celebrity. And the Gospel account of his trial ought to have been odd enough to attract some attention from historians -- Pontius Pilate cringing before a lynch mob is a bit like Ariel Sharon claiming that President Bush had pushed him into besieging the Palestinians' leaders.

Also, Philo had been interested in oddball Jewish sects and Josephus had reported on several Jewish rebel leaders, so both gentlemen would have found it natural to write about a historical JC.

[ September 25, 2002: Message edited by: lpetrich ]</p>

Vanderzyden

Yes, it's all an invention. A phantasmagorical tale. Hmmm...

To serve what purpose?

Vanderzyden

Anunnaki

It was invented to make you feel all warm and squishy inside while you wait for mommy to come and tuck you in.

Iasion

Greetings all,

Not all on that list are historians, but the point is an important one.

Here is an updated lists I have made :

<a href="http://members.iinet.net.au/~quentinj/Christianity/EarlyWriters.html" target="_blank">Early Writers</a>

Quentin David Jones

joedad

The same purpose that all fiction serves, like LOTR for example: Communication, entertainment, self-satisfaction, profit, to name a few.

Do you think the creation of literary fiction has a singular purpose?

joe

aikido7

They should have noticed?

Only if they were locally grounded in the political/religious goings on in a small, localized area.

And only if they thought it was noteworthy to write about AND/OR they had a religious or political agenda.

Who qualifies now?

Steven Carr

Philo at least.

aikido7

Myself, I usually don't write about what I am not interested in. I can't imagine doing otherwise unless I were still in school.

So now we can open up a can of worms I will call "What Prevents an Historian from Mentioning Some Things and Not Others?"

Vorkosigan

The list is way overdrawn. Some of those writers were concerned only with Roman politics or agriculture, others did mention Christianity at least -- like Tacitus. You'd have to do a name by name search to find out who should really have been expected to mention him. Certainly Philo, Justus, and Seneca, Martial and Juvenal...the other thing that cannot be discounted is that there were negative references that have since been excised from the existing literature.

Vorkosigan