Freethought & Rationalism Archive

seebs · 01-06-2003, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tdekeyser
Well, I have not met any nice Xians except my fiance. That is the truth. I have been spat at so many times because I am a non-believer. I have had a gun to my head, attempted to charge me with crimes, you name it. I live in the Dallas area and there is a church on every corner. I have 'infiltrated' groups and house gatherings. I study religion a lot and it is clear to me through experiences, books, documentaries, news, friends, and others I have met, that this faith teaches hate and religious racism. That means it starts out saying that everyone is a "sinner" and that you have only ONE way to be 'saved' from this sin. Incidentally, this sin was the result of a "trick" god played on his first creation toys (not very nice).

The faith doesn't teach racism. Some racist people come to the faith and bring their baggage with 'em.

Quote:

Ok theist.., do you want your very own child to be a theist or a atheist? I know you may allow them to be anything they want, but what would you 'prefer'? Why?

I would probably prefer that they be like me, because I think I'm "correct". On the other hand, so what? Any belief system at all has the impulse to want your friends and family to agree with you.

tdekeyser · 01-06-2003, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by seebs
The faith doesn't teach racism. Some racist people come to the faith and bring their baggage with 'em.

That faith does not teach religious racism? Ha ha ha ha ha!!

Instruction to murder persons of other faiths: Any person who performs religious rituals to other than Jehovah was to be executed.
Exodus 22:20 "He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed."
A call to God to destroy persons of other faiths:
Psalms 79:6: "Pour out thy wrath upon the heathen that have not known thee, and upon the kingdoms that have not called upon thy name."

Kill those who hold other beliefs: Some Jews in Jerusalem listened to a sermon by Paul, and were so enraged by his different teachings that they decided that he had no right to continue living.
Acts 22:22-23 "And they gave him audience unto this word, and then lifted up their voices, and said, Away with such a fellow from the earth: for it is not fit that he should live."

Teaching that followers of other religions are evil: The author recommends that Christians avoid close relationships with non-Christians. He implies that non-Christians are automatically unrighteous. He associates Christianity with "light" and other religions with "darkness." Because this passage from 6:14 to 7:1 abruptly changes topic, and
uses many words that are not used by Paul elsewhere, and
has a "striking affinity" with ideas expressed in the Dead Sea Scrolls,

some theologians believe that the passage was written by someone else and added to Paul's writing later. 3
2 Corinthians 6:14 "Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?"

Instruction to murder any of your relatives or friends if they spread other religious faiths:
Deuteronomy 13:6-10 "If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth; Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die..."

The list is just too long. These teachings will never get to my children, and they will never know the word "sinner".

seebs · 01-06-2003, 08:24 PM

Hmm. You must not mean the same thing I do by "racism". I think "racism" is "discrimination or prejudice based on racial group". This has nothing to do with religion.

BTW, keep in mind, most Christians don't consider the Old Testament law to be still in force; it's historical, not practical.

tdekeyser · 01-06-2003, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by seebs
Hmm. You must not mean the same thing I do by "racism". I think "racism" is "discrimination or prejudice based on racial group". This has nothing to do with religion.

BTW, keep in mind, most Christians don't consider the Old Testament law to be still in force; it's historical, not practical.

Yes, but religious racism is racism of other 'faiths' or non-faiths. So maybe that was the mis-understanding I had in the beginning..

and most of the quotes are from the NEW testament.

I'm going to bed, I'm sure I will find more pleasure here in the morning at my desk-hee hee

Good night all, thanks for the responses...(leave more please..)

seebs · 01-06-2003, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tdekeyser
Yes, but religious racism is racism of other 'faiths' or non-faiths.

Then it's not "racism", but "discrimination".

And yeah, Christianity has a history of discrimination; some of us are trying to get past that.

Quote:

and most of the quotes are from the NEW testament.

However, some of them seemed to be more *describing* things, rather than *endorsing* them.

ybnormal · 01-06-2003, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by seebs
And yeah, Christianity has a history of discrimination; some of us are trying to get past that.

Just the history? What about today? How do you "get past" the xian discrimination going on now, other than thru denial? Sorry, but "get past that" doesn't sound like "stop that."

seebs · 01-06-2003, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ybnormal
Just the history? What about today? How do you "get past" the xian discrimination going on now, other than thru denial? Sorry, but "get past that" doesn't sound like "stop that."

Read it about like "grampa has a history of alcoholism". Anyway, my way of "getting past" it is to not do it, and try to convince other people to not do it. This is made much harder by the observation that I'm pretty sure it's not a good idea for me to "distance myself" from the people who don't get it yet; after all, I need to hang around with them to explain to them why tolerance works.

Bree · 01-06-2003, 10:02 PM

Something else I don't understand about Christianity:

Supposedly Jesus died on the cross to "pay" for your sins. Why can't you pay for your own sins? I don't honestly believe that people can go through life without paying for their sins - call me whatever you'd like, but I believe in what goes around comes around. Why do we need someone else to pay for our transgressions when we should be doing so ourselves?

seebs · 01-06-2003, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bree
Something else I don't understand about Christianity:

Supposedly Jesus died on the cross to "pay" for your sins. Why can't you pay for your own sins? I don't honestly believe that people can go through life without paying for their sins - call me whatever you'd like, but I believe in what goes around comes around. Why do we need someone else to pay for our transgressions when we should be doing so ourselves?

I think the theory is that there's no way we can catch up with *all* of our sins.

I sometimes wonder if it's more for our benefit than for God's; we have a very hard time with "forgiveness" when we can't see who *did* get punished.

Basically, the theology is that the "just" punishment for our sins is death; we can't pay that price and live. Arguably, yeah, we *should* do so ourselves - but if we can't, we'll have to rely on someone else who can pay for them for us.

Bree · 01-06-2003, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by seebs
Basically, the theology is that the "just" punishment for our sins is death; we can't pay that price and live. Arguably, yeah, we *should* do so ourselves - but if we can't, we'll have to rely on someone else who can pay for them for us.

Call me crazy, but I try not to "sin" because I don't like causing harm - either to others, or myself. I guess that Christians have some sort of parallel to that in their religion; I often recall my parents saying "You just killed Jesus, all over again" when I did something wrong.

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01-06-2003, 08:24 PM	#43
seebs Contributor Join Date: May 2002 Location: Saint Paul, MN Posts: 24,524	Hmm. You must not mean the same thing I do by "racism". I think "racism" is "discrimination or prejudice based on racial group". This has nothing to do with religion. BTW, keep in mind, most Christians don't consider the Old Testament law to be still in force; it's historical, not practical.

01-06-2003, 10:02 PM	#48
Bree Veteran Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Twin Cities, USA Posts: 3,197	Something else I don't understand about Christianity: Supposedly Jesus died on the cross to "pay" for your sins. Why can't you pay for your own sins? I don't honestly believe that people can go through life without paying for their sins - call me whatever you'd like, but I believe in what goes around comes around. Why do we need someone else to pay for our transgressions when we should be doing so ourselves?

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