Attila

Thanks Seraphim. I really appreciate it.

Seraphim

You're welcome ...

You have a long journey ahead of you (ain't we all?), better get started with an open mind.

Rousseau_CHN

What is the Basic tenets of Taoism? Wu Wei (Do nothing).

My favorite Taoist and philosopher is Chuang Tzu. In college, I collected several of his poems. With your indulgence, I like to share some of my collections with you.



In the age when life on earth was full, no one paid any special attention to worthy men, nor did they single out the man of ability. Rulers were simply the highest branches on the tree, and the people were like deer in the woods. They were honest and righteous without realizing that they were "doing their duty." They loved each other and did not know that this was "love of neighbor." They deceived no one yet they did not know that they were "men to be trusted." They were reliable and did not know that this was "good faith." They lived freely together, giving and taking, and did not know that they were generous. For this reason their deeds have not been narrated. They made no history.

tk

After reading some texts which use the term "wu wei", it seems to me that a closer meaning would be "detached action", or "action without specific goals".

Western philosophers seem to like to postulate Ultimate Goals of Life and encourage people to actively pursue them: attain salvation, improve the world, achieve happiness on earth, etc.

In contrast, the Taoist and Buddhist philosophies discourage the conscious pursuit of such goals -- even the goal of attaining enlightenment. The thesis seems to be that enlightenment can only be attained as a by-product of aligning one's actions with Nature.

Answerer

Well, Taoism is likely to be derived from I-ching by Lao Zi as its principle certainly bear close resemblance to it (like yin-yang, trigrams, Tai Ji, Wu Ji). Anyway, I often heard Confucianists claiming that Taoism is mainly useful for self-attainment rather than serving a nation or helping others unlike their own ideology(Confucianism).

And I don't think christians will like yang- yin principle at all, I had been describing to them and the replies they given me is that darkness is darkness and light is light. :banghead: :banghead:

Straight Hate

My religious inspection has flitted over many different faiths and philosophies, but I always find myself coming back to Taoism. I'm not sure what it is... maybe the fact that it's an entire philosophy of nothing in particular that describes the world with amazing clarity. I'm not going to lie to you - sometimes my westernized ass finds Taoism annoying, but at the end of the day it simply accepts my accusations, supports them with a smile and goes about its merry way. I find Atheism and Taoism go hand in hand very well.

"To seek it outside is to leave it behind."

Seraphim

How amusing to read all this ... "intelligence" remarks ... {sarcasm as if you don't know).

Did someone went to the West one day before the Internet was created and told you guys that ALL the principles and philosphy from the East were the same (like Abrahamic religions - Moses's Laws, Christianity and Islam)?

Rousseau_CHN

How many times should we tell you that the Tao that can be discussed is not the true Tao.

Anyway, who says westeners have hard time understanding Taoism. The Age of Romanticsm in Europe was started by Chuang Tzu's story about a man who dreamt that he was a butterfly, only to wake up confuse: whether he was a man who dreamt he was a butterfly or a butterfly who dreamt that he was a man.

But my favorite Western Taoist is...John Lennon. Why not? You keep blubbering about the Tao of Pooh, the Tao of Ali...well, here's the Tao of John.


John Lennon--Watching The Wheels

People say I'm crazy doing what I'm doing,
Well they give me all kinds of warnings to save me from ruin,
When I say that I'm o.k. they look at me kind of strange,
Surely your not happy now you no longer play the game,

People say I'm lazy dreaming my life away,
Well they give me all kinds of advice designed to enlighten me,
When I tell that I'm doing Fine watching shadows on the wall,
Don't you miss the big time boy you're no longer on the ball?

I'm just sitting here watching the wheels go round and round,
I really love to watch them roll,
No longer riding on the merry-go-round,
I just had to let it go,

People asking questions lost in confusion,
Well I tell them there's no problem,
Only solutions,
Well they shake their heads and they look at me as if I've lost my mind,
I tell them there's no hurry...
I'm just sitting here doing time,

I'm just sitting here watching the wheels go round and round,
I really love to watch them roll,
No longer riding on the merry-go-round,
I just had to let it go.

kctan

'Shun Qi Zhi Ran'. Follow what nature dictates. Not detached action nor action without specific goals. That will be against nature which is also part of the Path.

Actually it did encourage people to live to the ultimate, be content with life & feel happiness every moment of your life. By aligning one self with nature, one would see things in it's natural perspective rather then a false sense of wanting what one wants nature to be. Enlightenment is not a goal for Tao.

Never seek for the Path, you won't find it by seeking.

The below is for those who are interested in some of the thingies mentioned in the posts.



The Tao is used for self 'attainment' only & won't help others or a country at all. This is partly true. However it may be natural for one to help another or even a country. Who can say for sure ?

Those ying yang, ba gua, I-ching, 5 elements etc... stuffs have nothing to do with Tao. They are added on later like the immortality thingy as well.

If you want to know, the concept for ying yang thingy is that all things are either ying or yang in nature & that humans (creatures, living things) by nature have a balance of the ying & the yang, when there's something wrong with the human body, it's percieved that the balance of the ying & yang had been broken therefore we need to take either things that are ying or yang to restore this balance.

The Tai Ji, Wu Ji thingy is like an explaination of how things came to be, first it's 'Wu Ji' (nothingness) which give rise to 'Tai Ji' (supreme oneness) which give rise to 'Liang Yi' (ying yang, two difference) which give rise to 'Shi Xiang' (four 'looks') which give rise to the 'Ba Gua' (eight 'difference' (forget about the correct translation)) so on & so forth until you get everything in the world. If you look closely it's actually a mathematical expression - 1 - 2 - 4 - 8 ...

Trigram & I-ching have a base from the Wu Ji, Tai Ji thingy. Trigram is actually the 'Ba Gua' while I-ching goes further, IIRC first you throw 3 coins to get the first (top) 'gua' then you throw it again to get the second 'gua' to complete the divination. Since there are eight combinations possible for the first 'gua' plus another eight for the second 'gua' it gives 64 possible out comes which you could then use to predict anything you want.

Feel free to query, I'll try to see what I can dig out for you but do bear in mind that it will be translated from a chinese source & you better hope I can manage a fairly adequate translation.

Seraphim

How many times should we tell you that the Tao that can be discussed is not the true Tao.

My reply : Your concept of Tao is not even close to the original concept, much less of anything. There is no Enlightnment or any other crap like that in Tao. Tao is simply about balancing act with nature, yourself and the Universe.

Anyway, who says westeners have hard time understanding Taoism. The Age of Romanticsm in Europe was started by Chuang Tzu's story about a man who dreamt that he was a butterfly, only to wake up confuse: whether he was a man who dreamt he was a butterfly or a butterfly who dreamt that he was a man.

My question : Didn't they ask that in Matrix (the movie).
How does a man knows what a Butterfly like and how does a Butterfly knows how a Man is like?

But my favorite Western Taoist is...John Lennon. Why not? You keep blubbering about the Tao of Pooh, the Tao of Ali...well, here's the Tao of John.

My question : ... O_o ... John Lennon? The dead singer? ... OK ....