Attila

Is anyone familiar with this. I have just recently begun reading about it and have found it facinating. It goes almost hand in hand with my Deist beliefs, maybe it even clarifiers it better and makes it more workable.

Opinions and comments?

Seraphim

I can consider myself as well-versed in Taosim (Ying Yan Principles and a few others that goes along with it). I've used (and still am) to learn it as part of my martial arts training (mostly for healing and cultivating energy).

How do you consider it to be almost like Deist?
How do you wish it could be more "workable"?
What exactly do you mean by workable anyway?

andy_d

Trying to describe Daoism is like trying to nail down water...

sweep

Tao Te Ching >>

http://www.clas.ufl.edu/users/gthurs...ttcstan3.htm#9

WITHOUT EXTREMES

The cup is easier to hold
when not filled to overflowing.

The blade is more effective
if not tempered beyond its mettle.

Gold and jade are easier to protect
if possessed in moderation.

He who seeks titles,
invites his own downfall.

The sage works quietly,
seeking neither praise nor fame;
completing what he does with natural ease,
and then retiring.
This is the way and nature of Tao.

THE WAY OF WATER

Great good is said to be like water,
sustaining life with no conscious striving,
flowing naturally, providing nourishment,
found even in places
which desiring man rejects.

In this way
it is like the Tao itself.

Like water, the sage abides in a humble place;
in meditation, without desire;
in thoughtfulness, he is profound,
and in his dealings, kind.
In speech, sincerity guides the man of Tao,
and as a leader, he is just.
In management, competence is his aim,
and he ensures the pacing is correct.

Because he does not act for his own ends,
nor cause unnecessary conflict,
he is held to be correct
in his actions towards his fellow man.

WITHOUT SEEKING ACCLAIM

By retaining his humility,
the talented person who is also wise,
reduces rivalry.

The person who possesses many things,
but does not boast of his possessions,
reduces temptation, and reduces stealing.

Those who are jealous of the skills or things
possessed by others,
most easily themselves become possessed by envy.

Satisfied with his possessions,
the sage eliminates the need to steal;
at one with the Tao,
he remains free of envy,
and has no need of titles.

By being supple, he retains his energy.
He minimizes his desires,
and does not train himself in guile,
nor subtle words of praise.
By not contriving, he retains
the harmony of his inner world,
and so remains at peace within himself.

It is for reasons such as these,
that an administration
which is concerned
with the welfare of those it serves,
does not encourage status
and titles to be sought,
nor encourage rivalry.

Ensuring a sufficiency for all,
helps in reducing discontent.

Administrators who are wise
do not seek honours for themselves,
nor act with guile
towards the ones they serve.

Attila

By workable I mean by making better sense of every thing. Maybe workable wasn't a good description. In Desim we believe in a creator, and the Tao could be the creator. It makes more sense than an old bearded man.

Sarpedon

one of my favorite tao te ching quotes, here's another:

"A cup is useful because it contains emptiness. Four walls contain a room, but without a doorway it is useless. Therefore, profit comes from what is there, usefulness from what is not there."

Unfortunately, Taoism, like buddhism, got all kinds of bizarre superstitions attached to it, and now its just another stupid religion.

If you like funny, bizarre foreign books, read "Outlaws of the Marsh." Its a work of fiction that contains several less than pious religious figures, including Gongsun Sheng, a taoist wizard who performs all kinds of magic feats, and Sagacious Lu, a drunken, brawling buddhist monk.

Seraphim

By workable I mean by making better sense of every thing. Maybe workable wasn't a good description. In Desim we believe in a creator, and the Tao could be the creator. It makes more sense than an old bearded man.

My reply : If I managed to help you make better sense of everything (which I cannot do so ... in this lifetime anyway), then it will not be Tao.

Toaism is not about making sense of God, it is about making sense of the CHANGES in and around US.

Like most (if not ALL) Eastern Principles, I see that Westerners didn't understand it properly either (from your friends - except Sweep's, posts). Here's some reading material and I could also can point out some interesting views which you can think about.

http://www.chinapage.com/gnl.html

What do you know about the concept of MacroUniverse and MicroUniverse?
I asked because it is very similar to Toaist's Heaven and Earth concept (along the way, God got stuck in the middle )

beastmaster

I used to be heavily into Taoism and Zen Buddhism about ten years ago. Check out the Tao of Pooh.

I love any religion that laughs and, most of all, laughs at itself. There aren't enough of em.

Humor strikes closer to the "ultimate truth" (whatever that is) than dogma.

Attila

I am trying to get away from the concept of God. The Tao makes perfect sense. And yes it is hard for the Western mind, at least my Western mind to understand Eastern philosophy. But I am trying.

Beastmaster, I have read the Tao of Pooh, and Mr.Hoff did a great job writing it. I have the Te of Piglet but have not had time to start reading it. I thoroughly enjoyed the Tao of Pooh.

Seraphim

I am trying to get away from the concept of God. The Tao makes perfect sense. And yes it is hard for the Western mind, at least my Western mind to understand Eastern philosophy. But I am trying.

My reply : Most what stopping a Westerner from fully understanding something from the East is the way Easterner and Westerner view the world.

To a Easterner (like myself), the concept of Soul is something that is already decided to exist - it is not something you measure with instrument and equipments, but something you measure with your heart and feelings.

Concept of God is already decided and (most of Easterners) believe that there is someone up there, in higher chain of existence.

To an Easterner, Concept of Death is not something you fear about, it is something that is part of life. You were born, you live and you will die (when your time comes).

I see that most Westerners (none Atheists anyway) kept holding to the concept of living as leech holding onto a flesh till it suck enough and it drop by itself. Most of the principles in the West is more concern about living than facing death, thus a concept such as Toaism is a bit hard to understand because it doesn't deals with life and death in a straight forward manner.

Give yourself some time, go at it with open mind, ask and answer your own questions, compare your answers with others who are in similar path (who is NOT closed minded) and ask more questions again.
You will get there ... one way or the other.