Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Kvalhion · 04-08-2002, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Christoph:


If you admit that there can be a God, it's unreasonable not to think that He is the answer. It just depends on how much of a free-thinker you are. ...Whether or not you're "allowed" to believe what the evidence suggests.

I seriously doubt you want to go down this route, Christoph, because I strongly believe you are getting in over your head.

You make the positive assertion that it is unreasonable not to think that God is the ultimate purpose. Now you must back it up.

You make the positive assertion that there is evidence to back up your claim. Now you must provide it.

Many have tried before you and all have failed. Good luck!

Christoph · 04-08-2002, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kvalhion:
Congratulations on your continual display of ignorance.

You continually insist that your declaration of purpose is the one true purpose without being able to verify its validity whatsoever.

In your arrogance, you chalk up the entire existence of the universe to be all about you, and declare your purpose to rule it. This is simply human arrogance at its worst.

Why don't you try providing one shred of proof for the existence of your God before you lecture about how your invented purpose is better than anyone else's.

Try not to focus on how "ignorant" I am and focus on the facts. I'm just saying that it's the most logical conclusion. If there is a more logical conclusion, say it. If you can't handle the logic, get out of the kitchen (...er something)

Philosoft · 04-08-2002, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Christoph:
OK. This is my argument for it.

We have purpose.

No, some believe we have purpose.

Quote:

It had to come from somewhere (everything in our universe does, as far as we know).

No, all natural effects have natural causes but it is not clear that purpose is anything at all, much less an effect.

Quote:

Did we evolve it? If we did, why? The concept of purpose seems pretty advanced.

Actually, the concept of purpose you are trying to invent right now seems pretty advanced. I hold no such opinion of my concept of purpose, certainly not that my concept of purpose needs to be explained by some stepwise increase in complexity.

Quote:

If it evolved, what concepts did we use as stepping stones to get to "puropose" or a goal or whatever you want to call it?

See above.

Quote:

The answer, of course, is that that something or someone gave us that purpose (you may deny this, but I doubt you have an alternative).

This is all meaningless until you demonstrate that anything you have said above has any validity.

Quote:

I've had people tell me that survival is the goal. That's the closest thing to a reasonable answer I've heard, but did the survival instinct would have to exist before the organism in order for that to be the answer.

Well, if you wish do define purpose as a priori objective then you will need a purpose-giver. In that case, your dilemma doesn't exist. You have already assumed what you wish to show.

Samhain · 04-08-2002, 12:49 PM

I believe many of the infidels here have done a grave injustice to the atheistic perspective by saying that there is no "purpose" to life which is universal to humankind. This question that has been presented by Cristoph is largely existential, and I think that this question is answered quite easily and quite clearly without focusing on Sartre's existentialism in particular. There is an overall meaning to life or "Purpose" as you might call it, even though it is quite simple (take it for granted, since it is one of the only things in life that truly is simple). I know, I know, everyone wants to know what the "purpose" is now. So, what is the purpose, with a capital "P", in life? To live and to exist.

Kvalhion · 04-08-2002, 12:51 PM

Sorry, that's not the way it works. You can't simply say your definition is the default and provide no evidence for its veracity. YOU make the assertions, YOU back it up.

Jayhawker Soule · 04-08-2002, 12:53 PM

Having said: "If you prefer a false answer to no answer, go with God."

Quote:

Originally posted by Christoph:
That's something you're going to have to figure out. I'm confident that you will sooner or later. I hope it's sooner.

No, you're confident only in your reliance upon myth. Unfortunately, not even this intellectual abstinence solves your problem, because it is still you who chooses which myth to follow.

MadMordigan · 04-08-2002, 12:54 PM

I know what my purpose here is. I don't know everything about it, but I know the main purpose. As far as the rest of eternity, I can't imagine what it will be like. Every indication is that it's going to be good. After all, if God knows me the way I know He does, He knows what I need and what I don't need for eternity.

WTF? And you have the gall to call us credulous? You admit you don't have a clue about what you know, but attempt to convince others of it anyways?

Thanks Christoph. You have convinced me to re-evaluate my opinion of xianity and theism in general. Downward.

[ April 08, 2002: Message edited by: MadMordigan ]

NOGO · 04-08-2002, 12:56 PM

The purpose of life is to procreate.
Why do we have libido like the animal?

The animals can`t think so it was necessary to give them libido to procreate.

But why does man have it?

Apparantly God could not trust our reason.
So to make sure that we procreated he gave us libido.

So our purpose in life is to procreate.

So do the job and get out.

[ April 08, 2002: Message edited by: NOGO ]

NOGO · 04-08-2002, 12:58 PM

You have not answered my question.

What is that purpose with a God here if you don`t know about eternity?

Kvalhion · 04-08-2002, 01:00 PM

Quote:

So, what is the purpose, with a capital "P", in life? To live and to exist.

Actually to be more in line with the community of all life, to live and to procreate.

04-08-2002, 12:54 PM	#37
MadMordigan Beloved Deceased Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 2,704	I know what my purpose here is. I don't know everything about it, but I know the main purpose. As far as the rest of eternity, I can't imagine what it will be like. Every indication is that it's going to be good. After all, if God knows me the way I know He does, He knows what I need and what I don't need for eternity. WTF? And you have the gall to call us credulous? You admit you don't have a clue about what you know, but attempt to convince others of it anyways? Thanks Christoph. You have convinced me to re-evaluate my opinion of xianity and theism in general. Downward. [ April 08, 2002: Message edited by: MadMordigan ]</p>

04-08-2002, 12:56 PM	#38
NOGO Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Canada Posts: 1,562	The purpose of life is to procreate. Why do we have libido like the animal? The animals can`t think so it was necessary to give them libido to procreate. But why does man have it? Apparantly God could not trust our reason. So to make sure that we procreated he gave us libido. So our purpose in life is to procreate. So do the job and get out. [ April 08, 2002: Message edited by: NOGO ]</p>

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04-08-2002, 12:49 PM	#34
Samhain Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Southern California Posts: 7,735	I believe many of the infidels here have done a grave injustice to the atheistic perspective by saying that there is no "purpose" to life which is universal to humankind. This question that has been presented by Cristoph is largely existential, and I think that this question is answered quite easily and quite clearly without focusing on Sartre's existentialism in particular. There is an overall meaning to life or "Purpose" as you might call it, even though it is quite simple (take it for granted, since it is one of the only things in life that truly is simple). I know, I know, everyone wants to know what the "purpose" is now. So, what is the purpose, with a capital "P", in life? To live and to exist.

04-08-2002, 12:51 PM	#35
Kvalhion Regular Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Southern CA Posts: 441	Sorry, that's not the way it works. You can't simply say your definition is the default and provide no evidence for its veracity. YOU make the assertions, YOU back it up.

04-08-2002, 12:58 PM	#39
NOGO Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Canada Posts: 1,562	You have not answered my question. What is that purpose with a God here if you don`t know about eternity?

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