Arkus 02

I'd like some opinions on Abortion.

Are there any secular justifications for pro-life legislation? I mean I would never want my girlfriend/wife to have an abortion, but I honestly see no reason why I should deny someone else the option because of my personal beliefs.

The only opinions I've heard are that babies have constitutional rights too (sorta legit), and that god wants sex to be uninterfered with (bullshit).

Similarly, I'm also interested as to how other atheists justify being pro-choice.

themistocles

I kind of view it as a slippery slope in which deep responsibility takes a back seat to cheap convenience.

Let's put it this way: as long as abortion is legal, child support shouldn't be. After all, if it's a woman's choice, what responsibility does a father have towards a child. The money a father makes belongs to him, it's his hard work, not hers or her child's.

After all, there's no other reason for abortion other than convenience, no matter how diplomatic pro-choice opinions may put it: "I can't afford to be a mother", "I don't have the time to be a mother", "I'm not ready to be a mother". Well, some fathers can't afford the time, money, and responsibility to be fathers, but it's not their choice, is it?

I'm atheist, but for the reasons I just stated, abortion has an enormously repugnant taste to it...

Loren Pechtel

You are *HALF* right here.

If the pregnancy is known in time to abort then the man's liability should be limited to 1/2 the cost of an abortion & associated costs.
If the woman will not accept abortion she should tell him *BEFORE* they have sex. If he agrees, the current rules apply instead. (To avoid he-said/she-said this needs to be done in writing.)

However, child support includes the children of failed relationships. Abortion has no effect here, such child support is still owed.

Consider Mr. X: 3 women (at least that I'm aware of) have conceived by him. #1 was his wife, they had 2. She now has custody, he should pay support. #2 was a long-term live-in, 1 child. Again, he should pay. #3 was a casual relationship. I strongly suspect the conception was by her intent. He shouldn't have to pay.

Queen of Swords

Originally posted by themistocles
After all, there's no other reason for abortion other than convenience

Does a concern for one's own health or life count as convenience?

themistocles

No, if the health issue of serious consequence. Yes, if it isn't.

pariah

I voted pro-choice. I am pro-choice b/c although a fetus may be living, that does not entitle it to human rights, as it is not a human yet. I think abortion should be illegal after the third trimester, I beleive this is when the brain first starts to develope=not just a peice of tissue anymore.

Wow though...I had never considered the child support thing. I agree w/ you themistocles

Queen of Swords

Originally posted by themistocles
No, if the health issue of serious consequence. Yes, if it isn't.

What the definition of "serious consequence"?

Moreover, if a woman has an abortion because of "serious consequence", doesn't that negate your assertion that "there's no other reason for abortion other than convenience"?

abe smith

Assuming that Themistocles is a male.... all he has to do to avoid the undesired consequences which he dislikes is to take care of HIS OWN behaviours = keep his own gametes from getting into places where they can cause a pregnancy. Apart from that, what OTHER guys (choose to) do or not-do is not Themistocles's problem nor concern.
If he's willing to *prevent*his spermatozoa from fertilizing any human ova, he's not going to HAVE any problems w/ pregnancy, abortion, etc etc. If he's too stupid or unwilling, to do the necessary precautions, well, the results ARE his problem(s) and he may be stuck w/ consequences he doesn't like, including legal consequences so long as current laws are in force.

yguy

What is it, a reptile?

Gawdawful

IMHO, until the point the fetus is viable, it's just part of the woman's body and she has as much right to remove it as having a wart burned off.

[dons flame retardant underwear]

Warren in OK