Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Philosoft · 06-04-2002, 05:55 PM

Why not include allegedly important things like homosexuality, bestiality, promiscuity, prostitution?

Why include things like boiling baby goats (version dependent), coveting (just try to stop doing that!), honoring one's parents (something we'd probably do anyway)?

Ideas?

Liquidrage · 06-04-2002, 06:01 PM

Because it's the Bible(historical fiction) not Dianetics (historically nutty).

Surely, L Ron Hubbard would have put all the sins into a neat little list, possibly even in a bold font.

excreationist · 06-04-2002, 06:12 PM

They were written on (two?) stone tablets and I guess God wanted the writing to be pretty big.

This is how lengthy the commandments are:
Exodus 20:2-17

Quote:

2 "I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.
3 "You shall have no other gods before me.
4 "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand {generations} of those who love me and keep my commandments.
7 "You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.
8 "Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
12 "Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the Lord your God is giving you.
13 "You shall not murder.
14 "You shall not commit adultery.
15 "You shall not steal.
16 "You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.
17 "You shall not covet your neighbor's house. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his manservant or maidservant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor."

And here is the a similar version:
Deuteronomy 5:6-21:

Quote:

6 "I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.
7 "You shall have no other gods before me.
8 "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 9 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 10 but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.
11 "You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.
12 "Observe the Sabbath day by keeping it holy, as the Lord your God has commanded you. 13 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 14 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your ox, your donkey or any of your animals, nor the alien within your gates, so that your manservant and maidservant may rest, as you do. 15 Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day.
16 "Honor your father and your mother, as the Lord your God has commanded you, so that you may live long and that it may go well with you in the land the Lord your God is giving you.
17 "You shall not murder.
18 "You shall not commit adultery.
19 "You shall not steal.
20 "You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.
21 "You shall not covet your neighbor's wife. You shall not set your desire on your neighbor's house or land, his manservant or maidservant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor."

Thor Q. Mada · 06-04-2002, 06:22 PM

Listen, we are talking HEAVY stone tablets here, which have to be carried down a mountain without breaking them.
If you guys would have done your homework and looked at the Flintstones, you would know that 10 is about the maximum than can be done without affecting portability.
Remember, Moses didn't have a PDA, and wasn't that young anymore when given the stone tablets.
Let's be practical about this!!

luvluv · 06-04-2002, 06:27 PM

There were 15 but Mel Brooks dropped 5 of them.

Mecha_Dude · 06-04-2002, 06:28 PM

Why only 10? how about "Why so many?"
George Carlin siad it best:

Quote:

1. Be faithful, Honest and Good
2. Try really hard not to kill anybody unless they pray to a different invisible man in the sky than you do.

he dumped coveting thy neighbor's goods cuz that's the basis of capitalism.

ShottleBop · 06-04-2002, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Why not include allegedly important things like homosexuality, bestiality, promiscuity, prostitution?

Why include things like boiling baby goats (version dependent), coveting (just try to stop doing that!), honoring one's parents (something we'd probably do anyway)?

The Ten Commandments have the virtue of being the first of the commandments reportedly given to the Jewish people after the Exodus. They have primacy of place. While important, they were not traditionally cited by Jewish commentators as "the" most important. The following are excerpts from the Talmud:

Quote:

R. Simlai when preaching said: Six hundred and thirteen precepts were communicated to Moses, three hundred and sixty-five negative precepts, corresponding to the number of solar days [in the year], and two hundred and forty-eight positive precepts, corresponding to the number of the members of man's body. Said R. Hamnuna: What is the [authentic] text for this? It is, Moses commanded us torah, an inheritance of the congregation of Jacob, 'torah' being in letter-value, equal to six hundred and eleven, 'I am' and 'Thou shalt have no [other Gods]' [not being reckoned, because] we heard from the mouth of the Might [Divine]. David came and reduced them to eleven [principles], as it is written, A Psalm of David. Lord, who shall sojourn in Thy tabernacle? Who shall dwell in Thy holy mountain? - [i] He that walketh uprightly, and [ii] worketh righteousness, and [iii] speaketh truth in his heart; that [iv] hath no slander upon his tongue, [v] nor doeth evil to his fellow, [vi] nor taketh up a reproach against his neighbour, [vii] in whose eyes a vile person is despised, but [viii] he honoureth them that fear the Lord, [ix] He sweareth to his own hurt and changeth not, [x] He putteth not out his money on interest, [xi] nor taketh a bribe against the innocent. He that doeth these things shall never be moved.

Isaiah came and reduced them to six [principles], as it is written, [i] He that walketh righteously, and [ii] speaketh uprightly, [iii] He that despiseth the gain of oppressions, [iv] that shaketh his hand from holding of bribes, [v] that stoppeth his ear from hearing of blood, [vi] and shutteth his eyes from looking upon evil; he shall dwell on high.

Micah came and reduced them to three [principles], as it is written, It hath been told thee, O man, what is good, and what the Lord doth require of thee: [i] only to do justly, and [ii] to love mercy and [iii] to walk humbly before thy God.

Again came Isaiah and reduced them to two [principles], as it is said, Thus saith the Lord, [i] Keep ye justice and [ii] do righteousness [etc.]. Amos came and reduced them to one [principle], as it is said, For thus saith the Lord unto the house of Israel, Seek ye Me and live. To this R. Nahman b. Isaac demurred, saying: [Might it not be taken as,] Seek Me by observing the whole Torah and live? - But it is Habakuk who came and based them all on one [principle], as it is said, But the righteous shall live by his faith. -Talmud, Makkoth 23b-24a

On another occasion it happened that a certain heathen came before Shammai and said to him, 'Make me a proselyte, on condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot.' Thereupon he repulsed him with the builder's cubit which was in his hand. When he went before Hillel, he said to him, 'What is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbour: that is the whole Torah, while the rest is the commentary thereof; go and learn it.' -Talmud, Shabbat 31a

R. Assi further said: Charity is equivalent to all the other religious precepts combined. -Talmud, Baba Bathra 9a

(This excerpt is taken from <a href="http://web.wt.net/~cbenton/healing/h3.htm" target="_blank">http://web.wt.net/~cbenton/healing/h3.htm</A>

Philosoft · 06-04-2002, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mecha_Dude:
<strong>Why only 10? how about "Why so many?"
George Carlin siad it best:
</strong>

I was wondering how long it would take for this to show up.

CX · 06-04-2002, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Philosoft:
<strong>

I was wondering how long it would take for this to show up.</strong>

All time best Carlin quote for justifying a particular religion, "My god's got a bigger dick than your god."

excreationist · 06-04-2002, 10:12 PM

This is what the books of Moses say about prostitution to other gods:

Exodus 34:15-16
"Be careful not to make a treaty with those who live in the land; for when they prostitute themselves to their gods and sacrifice to them, they will invite you and you will eat their sacrifices. And when you choose some of their daughters as wives for your sons and those daughters prostitute themselves to their gods, they will lead your sons to do the same."

Leviticus 17:7
"They must no longer offer any of their sacrifices to the goat idols to whom they prostitute themselves. This is to be a lasting ordinance for them and for the generations to come."

Leviticus 20:5-6
"I will set my face against that man and his family and will cut off from their people both him and all who follow him in prostituting themselves to Molech. I will set my face against the person who turns to mediums and spiritists to prostitute himself by following them, and I will cut him off from his people."

Deuteronomy 23:17
"No Israelite man or woman is to become a shrine prostitute."

Deuteronomy 31:16
"And the Lord said to Moses: "You are going to rest with your fathers, and these people will soon prostitute themselves to the foreign gods of the land they are entering. They will forsake me and break the covenant I made with them."

===============

This is what the books of Moses say about regular prostitution:
Leviticus 19:29
"Do not degrade your daughter by making her a prostitute, or the land will turn to prostitution and be filled with wickedness."

Leviticus 21:7
"They [priests] must not marry women defiled by prostitution or divorced from their husbands, because priests are holy to their God."

Leviticus 21:9
"If a priest's daughter defiles herself by becoming a prostitute, she disgraces her father; she must be burned in the fire."

Leviticus 21:14
"He [the high priest] must not marry a widow, a divorced woman, or a woman defiled by prostitution, but only a virgin from his own people,"

Deuteronomy 23:18
"You must not bring the earnings of a female prostitute or of a male prostitute into the house of the Lord your God to pay any vow, because the Lord your God detests them both."

Anyway, it looks like that God doesn't like prostitution much, but there is no death penalty (unlike homosexual sex, incest and bestiality) - unless it involves a priest's daughter. There isn't even a punishment for regular prostitution (unlike things like stealing, etc) so God permits it.

06-04-2002, 05:55 PM	#1
Philosoft Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Southeast of disorder Posts: 6,829	Why only 10 Commandments? Why not include allegedly important things like homosexuality, bestiality, promiscuity, prostitution? Why include things like boiling baby goats (version dependent), coveting (just try to stop doing that!), honoring one's parents (something we'd probably do anyway)? Ideas?

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06-04-2002, 06:01 PM	#2
Liquidrage Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Tallahassee Posts: 1,301	Because it's the Bible(historical fiction) not Dianetics (historically nutty). Surely, L Ron Hubbard would have put all the sins into a neat little list, possibly even in a bold font.

06-04-2002, 06:22 PM	#4
Thor Q. Mada Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Asia Posts: 3,558	Listen, we are talking HEAVY stone tablets here, which have to be carried down a mountain without breaking them. If you guys would have done your homework and looked at the Flintstones, you would know that 10 is about the maximum than can be done without affecting portability. Remember, Moses didn't have a PDA, and wasn't that young anymore when given the stone tablets. Let's be practical about this!!

06-04-2002, 06:27 PM	#5
luvluv Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Planet Lovetron Posts: 3,919	There were 15 but Mel Brooks dropped 5 of them.

06-04-2002, 10:12 PM	#10
excreationist Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Australia Posts: 4,886	This is what the books of Moses say about prostitution to other gods: Exodus 34:15-16 "Be careful not to make a treaty with those who live in the land; for when they prostitute themselves to their gods and sacrifice to them, they will invite you and you will eat their sacrifices. And when you choose some of their daughters as wives for your sons and those daughters prostitute themselves to their gods, they will lead your sons to do the same." Leviticus 17:7 "They must no longer offer any of their sacrifices to the goat idols to whom they prostitute themselves. This is to be a lasting ordinance for them and for the generations to come." Leviticus 20:5-6 "I will set my face against that man and his family and will cut off from their people both him and all who follow him in prostituting themselves to Molech. I will set my face against the person who turns to mediums and spiritists to prostitute himself by following them, and I will cut him off from his people." Deuteronomy 23:17 "No Israelite man or woman is to become a shrine prostitute." Deuteronomy 31:16 "And the Lord said to Moses: "You are going to rest with your fathers, and these people will soon prostitute themselves to the foreign gods of the land they are entering. They will forsake me and break the covenant I made with them." =============== This is what the books of Moses say about regular prostitution: Leviticus 19:29 "Do not degrade your daughter by making her a prostitute, or the land will turn to prostitution and be filled with wickedness." Leviticus 21:7 "They [priests] must not marry women defiled by prostitution or divorced from their husbands, because priests are holy to their God." Leviticus 21:9 "If a priest's daughter defiles herself by becoming a prostitute, she disgraces her father; she must be burned in the fire." Leviticus 21:14 "He [the high priest] must not marry a widow, a divorced woman, or a woman defiled by prostitution, but only a virgin from his own people," Deuteronomy 23:18 "You must not bring the earnings of a female prostitute or of a male prostitute into the house of the Lord your God to pay any vow, because the Lord your God detests them both." Anyway, it looks like that God doesn't like prostitution much, but there is no death penalty (unlike homosexual sex, incest and bestiality) - unless it involves a priest's daughter. There isn't even a punishment for regular prostitution (unlike things like stealing, etc) so God permits it.

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