Starboy

Spurly, how about:

1) The word "truth" is used in almost everything spouted from the mouths of Christians (yet they have nothing but the bible to back them up)
2) Christians are invading our government, there sentiments and commandments are plastered on public buildings, currency, seals and in our pledge.
3) Christian youth ministers catch them at an early age and fill their heads with unsubstantiated nonsense. They can get away with teaching and promoting ideas as the “truth” that would get educators, business men and others thrown in jail.
4) There was a time not too long ago when mandatory religious training was part of some of the public school systems in this country.
5) Our president wears his Christianity on his sleeve forgetting that not everyone in this country is a Christian.
6) There are churches everywhere. I alone have two churches very close to me with another four a short distance away.
7) Ministers tell people what to think. My sister inlaw is a devout believer and her pastor has informed her that she should support a theocracy, that evolution is evil and against god and that people who perform abortions or get abortions are damned to hell forever. I also work with a company that is saturated with Christians and the pastors literally command their flock to invest money, to work for free, to hop to it at their beck and call. When someone is not doing what someone else wants the immediate response is to call their pastor. Yikes! How screwed up is that?
8) There is public prayer everywhere. When performed in our government on government time with public money it is an unlawful endorsement of religion.
9) Religious people are allowed to fleece the public daily by telling them "god wants you to give me money". By putting on faith extravaganzas where they use every trick in the book to pull one over on the public. Why isn’t the FBI or local authorities cracking down on such abuses? I'll tell you why, because religion gets a free ride in this country.
10) Sanctimonious robots like you spurly who don't understand the concept of live and let live.

Starboy

mike_decock

How many blocks can you drive without being assaulted by a church with a crucifix? How many commercials can you watch without some commercial promoting Praise & Worship CDs? How many TV shows or movies can you watch without some mention of God? How often are nonreligious people being condemned for every ill in society (crime, abortion, decline in education)?

I think many ex-Christians would agree with me that the assault by Christianity is far more oppressive than the assault against Christianity.

-Mike...

spurly

Mike and Starboy:

Thanks for answering the question I asked. I thought that "shoving it down your throat" would mean that they were forcibly trying to get someone to accept Jesus - like at gun point or something.

Just because churches exist, just because crosses are on buildings, just because people pray, just because churches and chistian publishing houses advertise, does not mean that they are cramming these things down your throat. It seems like the intolerance is coming from the other side on this argument. It seems like you want to get rid of Christianity. I personally am not advocating non-believers to hide what they believe - but you seem to be advocating that Christians do that.

There are many things, as a Christian, I see on TV and in society that are repulsive to me. However, I don't think the society is trying to shove these things down my throat. What am I referring to? The sex-saturation of our culture, even down to beer commercials. The profanity and obscenity of pop culture that comes into my house on free airwaves. The other religions that are advocated in popular culture. Do I think they are being shoved down my throat? No, because I can choose not to ingest them. I can choose to turn away from them.

It seems you want to remove Christianity from the market place of ideas. That, my friends, is the epitome of intolerance.

Kevin

Starboy

Spurly, you oversimplify. If the beer commercials made unsubstantiated "truth" claims, it would be improper and they would be forced to stop it. Placing a cross on a church or even on your own home is fine, but placing it on a public building we all use is both unnecessary and unconstitutional. I do not wish to remove Christianity from the marketplace of ideas. I wish to remove it from our government, and I wish to hold it to the same standard we hold other public institutions. No fraud, unsubstantiated claims passed off as "truth" and equal time for opposing viewpoints. Christian leaders should be thrown in jail if they deceive and abuse the public trust. Christians will become good citizens when they respect the constitution and separation of church and state. They will become decent human beings when they realize they do not have a corner on the "truth".

Starboy

mike_decock

No, not forcibly. It's more like passive coercion, if that makes sense.

I would actually be afraid of having my car vandalized if I put a Darwin fish on it. I speak very carefully about my non-belief at work lest I jeopardize my job. There have been occasions where someone who was too vocal with their non-Christian sentiments was escorted out of the building.

Keep "repulsive" in mind...

Now, imagine that every church had an enormous phallus on the steeple. Imagine that the profanity and obsenity was completely uncensored 24 hours a day on television. Imagine seeing people bearing their phallic necklaces with pride. Imagine being discriminated against for not being a member of the "Cult of the Phallus".

I know that sounds absurd, but I hope that gives you an idea of how repulsive Christianity is to some people. I think religion is just as harmful to society as you think the sex-saturation is.

-Mike...

Starboy

I think what you are trying to say Mike is to a Christian there is only one way to live, their way and they cannot tolerate anyone not abiding by it.

Starboy

mike_decock

Pretty close. Christianity, as an exclusive religion, is a doctrine of intolerance. I just don't have much tolerance for intolerance .

-Mike...

spurly

But see, here is where the misunderstanding arises. Christians can tolerate others who choose not to live their life based on the truth of God's word. We live next door to them, we invite them into our homes. We talk with them while they are mowing, gardening, etc. We offer to help them when they need help. And we treat them with the respect that they deserve.

We don't force anyone to accept the story of Christ. But neither can we keep silent about it, because it is the only hope of salvation. If we refused to tell the story of God's love now, people will be upset with us for all eternity - because we kept it to ourselves.

I just want everyone to know that I am in love and that they can experience the same thing. But I don't refuse to accept them if they choose not to accept Christ.

Kevin

spurly

Ahhh... the truth comes out. I knew it eventually would.

Starboy

Spurly, just think of it as the golden rule in action.