Starboy

Christianity == fraud?

1) Christianity’s constructs of soul, sin, devil, demon and so forth are no longer taken seriously by most Christians in everyday life, but are presented as reality every Sunday in church.

2) Christianity claims to be about love and yet it is the most aggressive at proselytizing. This is intolerant, and there is nothing loving about intolerance.

3) Let’s just put aside claims about god, and the “truth” of the bible and let’s consider the major selling point of Christianity, going to heaven. If viewed as a corporation, god is top management, the bible is company policy and all the churches, priests, pastors and so forth are branch offices and representatives of the company. The primary product they are selling, heaven, has never been seen by anyone that has lived to tell about it. They have collected trillions in the heaven reservation business and yet no one knows if anyone has actually made it to heaven. If they were an actual business entity their operation would have been shutdown and the representatives thrown in jail long ago. And when they could not produce god for the authorities, some might suspect that it was a front using a fictitious chairman with impeccable credentials to further dupe the public.

4) Christianity claims that it creates a peaceful, happy society. They are insistent in this claim. They also claim that this country is a mess. They also claim that the majority of people in this country are Christians and this is a Christian country. Isn’t it obvious that this doesn’t add up? One or more of these claims has to be fraudulent, yet they are very insistent on all of them.

There is much much more. Please feel free to add to the list of Christian fraud.

Starboy

spurly

Just because they are not taken seriously does not mean that they don't exist. If their was an alligator in my backyard, but I did not take that seriously, that would not negate that alligator's existence.

It is precisely because Christianity is about love that we are telling the story to as many people as will give us a hearing. If someone had a cure for cancer, but did not publicize it, would that be loving? Not at all. In the same way, Christ is the cure for sin and the repairer of the breech in our relationship with God. The most loving thing to do is get the news of this love to as many people as possible. The most unloving and selfish thing to do would be to keep it to ourselves.

I, for one, do not use heaven as a "selling point" for Christianity. For me its about a lot more than that. Christianity is all about repairing our relationship with God that was broken by sin. Once that relationship is repaired, other relationships can be repaired as we submit them to the Lordship of Jesus Christ. Heaven is not the goal, it is simply a fringe benefit - the goal is a right relationship with God.


Christianity does bring peace between men and God and between men and men, women and men, etc. But only when the people who are living in a right relationship with God take that relationship seriously. One of the biggest problems of the church today is the number of Christians who are Christians in name, but their actions do not match up to what they believe. It is called integrity, and it is something that I call our youth to all the time.

Starboy

Errr, spurly, that is exactly the point. Christians claim that such things as spirits, demons, and such are everywhere and yet no one takes such things seriously. If someone claimed there was an alligator in your back yard you would take it seriously. At one time Christianity's constructs were relevant, but times have changed and we no longer explain existence with such things. To continue to claim they are relevant is fraudulent.


Apples and oranges. Someone claiming to have a cure for cancer is not the same as someone being able to demonstrate they have a cure for cancer. Christianity has had its chance. It has demonstrated it is a failure. To continue to attribute efficacy to such a failure is fraud.

So much the better, not being able to produce god is the same as not being able to produce heaven. Pushing religion to obtain the benefits of a relationship with a fictitious uberfather is just as fraudulent

Again, you make a claim that is not substantiated by history. I can personally attest that the existence of Christianity has not made my life peaceful. To be fair though, it is not likely that the absence of Christianity would have made that much difference. Be that as it may, it is Christians that make claims that it makes life peaceful contrary to the evidence. This constitutes fraud.

As to your complaint about Christian integrity, you are preaching to the choir. Funny thing though, it is a sentiment that is echoed by Christians all through Christian history. As such it is further evidence that it never did work.

You see spurly, something that exists will work even if you don't believe in it. Believing in it has nothing to do with its actual reality. If Christianity had any active ingredient this would be an entirely different discussion because you would have something real to talk about. Insisting that Christianity does have an active ingredient with no evidence to back that up is fraud.

Starboy

Magus55

Christianity is hardly a failure. Its actually a complete success. It went from a hidden religion, in complete opposition to the most powerful empire in history - whereby admitting you were Christian got you killed ( which is where the Icythys came from - was a secret symbol instead of the cross to symbolize the Christian community), to take over the entire Roman Empire, and becoming the most loved, the most hated, and the most popular religion in human history. And Christianity has been growing over the last 10 years. That is a success, not a failure.

Rhea

Heh. Love the way you drop everything between "taking over the Roman Empire" and "the last 10 years". Heh. So what happened to the Church as an empire, anyway? Still growing? That's a pretty big skip and a jump. What's the matter? Don't care for that part of History?

S'funny Christians love to say, "The Roman empire fell because of it's sinfulness!". So what made the Christian empire fall, anyway?

Oh, and by the way christianity has never, at any time, been the most popular religion. In fact, if one believed the bible, one might say that Judaism on the morning after the flood was the most popular, since 100% of the planet were adherants, eh?

Do your homework, fella. Repeat after me...

"Christianity has never been the largest religion"
"Christianity has never been the largest religion"
"Christianity has never been the largest religion"
"Christianity has never been the largest religion"

Starboy

It is only evidence of the success of the fruad. All frauds at one time are a growing concern, Enron is a good example. The only difference between Enron and Christianity is that Christianity has no requirement to show that anything it claims has any basis in reality. In other words there is no way for anyone to check the books of Christianity. The growth of Christianity is not evidence for any claim other than it is growing.

Starboy

Abacus

Actually, ignoring the issue of who is a True Christian, Christianity is the largest religion, with some 2 billion followers. The Catholic church alone has nearly a billion members. Islam is second, with around 1.2 billion. Not suprisingly, both of these religions historically have been quite violent. It's amazing how many converts the sword can win.

Of course, we all know that just because a religion is popular, it does not mean it is true.

Rhea

mea culpa - I did not realize it added up that way.

(but it still doesn't beat Judaism at 100%, heh, heh)

Off to do research...

spurly

Starboy, one thing you mentioned earlier in this thread was this:



I have been thinking about this and throwing it around from one side of my brain to the other. I agree with you that Christianity is exclusive, for Jesus plainly taught that there is no other way to the Father except through him (John 14:6). The apostles repeated this in Acts 4:12.

But, the argument of Christianity being exclusive and intolerant falls to the earth and is shattered when one realizes that anyone who puts their trust in Christ can be saved. In that sense, Christianity is one of the most inclusive of all religions. No one is left out - it is open to all who will accept Jesus on faith and come back to a relationship with God.

Christians is exclusive, yes. But it is also extremely inclusive.

Kevin

Bree

I think you've got the fundamental part of your religion down, spurly (i.e. anyone who pusts their trust in Christ can be saved), but there are several things you're also either unaware of or choosing to ignore. For example, can one accept Jesus on faith, come to a relationship with God, be pro-choice, and still get into Heaven? Can one accept Jesus on faith, come to a relationship with God, commit adultery, and still get into Heaven? The Bible makes it very clear that having faith and accepting Christ is NOT enough to gain the favour of God. There are a lot of other rules and regulations that figure in. The great majority of Christians pick and choose at random which of these rules they're going to follow.

So, how exactly do you know what is acceptable to God? You can't look to the Bible, because it is nearly impossible to follow ALL the rules that have been set forth for the believer. If you are one of the people who say "X is no longer valid in today's world, but Y still is" how do you know that God accepts Y as an answer? Again, I ask: is your hope for Heaven 100% secure, or do you die wondering if you chose the right verses to believe in?