sighhswolf

Please excuse me Don, I would invite jojo to read
and respond to my questions that I have posted in
RR&P.
Since he has been the questioner, maybe he can also be the educator.
I would like to explore the areas of jojo's seemingly limitless knowledge concerning Islam.
And actually have him answer some questions that I have about the fundamentals of Islam and the charges that have been made by scholars and researchers dealing with the origins of his faith.
Wolf

HelenM

Well, I don't see it as a taint, myself, to have you agree with me!

The risk of which I was thinking, was that you'd use one of my arguments against Islam against Christianity, thus turning it back against me. But then since if I am recalling correctly, you don't think I'm a Christian, maybe not.

I found out how to get a really strong reaction out of the conservative Christians I hang out with: tell them I'm going to the Jesus course at the UU church. It was so strong I have only told two of them.

love
Helen

David M. Payne

In jojo-sa we have, in my opinion, the Muslim version of JM-MJ-little war- and whoever else his next incarnation proves to be. I find the parallel between the true believers of religion, communism and fascism to be interesting. They all have found the true path, be it God, Marx or Hitler. Funny how that path leads to death and destruction of those who don’t follow their “God”, isn’t it? At least (he/she?) Is willing to engage us in a little debate, no matter how poorly he/she performs in said debate.

hinduwoman

Quotes from Koran as ordered:

47:41: 'When you meet the unbelievers, smite their necks, then, when you have made wide slaughter among them, tie fast the bonds
18:671: 'It is not for any Prophet to have prisoners until he make wide slaughter in the land, (revealed on occasion of the captives of Badr)
[9.29] Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.
[8.12] When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.
[8.13] This is because they acted adversely to Allah and His Apostle; and whoever acts adversely to Allah and His Apostle-- then surely Allah is severe in requiting (evil).
[8.14] This-- taste it, and (know) that for the unbelievers is the chastisement of fire.
[8.15] O you who believe! when you meet those who disbelieve marching for war,
then turn not your backs to them.
[8.16] And whoever shall turn his back to them on that day-- unless he turn
aside for the sake of fighting or withdraws to a company-- then he, indeed,
becomes deserving of Allah's wrath, and his abode is hell; and an evil destination shall it be.
[8.17] So you did not slay them, but it was Allah Who slew them, and you did not smite when you smote (the enemy), but it was Allah Who smote, and that He might confer upon the believers a good gift from Himself; surely Allah is Hearing,
Knowing.

I would love to hear the apology for 9:29.

hinduwoman

If you like Jo-Sa I can quote from the Hadiths about the things Mohommad did --- from battles to his sex life.

jojo-sa

About the human rights things DMB asks, well i agree with some and others are just plain to vague.

so if you want to be taken seiously by me, then be like hiduwoman and post some problems you have then we discuss them one for one.

(by the way i go on vacation for few weeks , so if i take bit long to answer ,remember i wil get back if all goes well and i return safely.)
For the Record I do not have umlimited knowledge.

I do have bit of knowledge that it seem many of you here dont have though. Eg. About the prohpet and his marriage to Aisha.

Ask yourselves these questions.

1. Was Aisha unhappy with the marriage
2. were any other people objecting to the marriage
3. was this not the norm of the time to marry so young.
4. no one esle till recently saw this as a prob.

even in the week i saw a program made by the fench about the The prophet Muhammad and a woman (non muslim )one of the commentators siad the marraige to aisha was not a problem.

So i wont answer any more about that topic.

ok Hinduwoman

I see you attack as usaul following the other infidels example on here. at least you quote a bit, though it is mostly similar things, just wonder where your info is coming from.

nevertheless i wil try to answer as much as possible for today since i go on vacation soon.

ok


its 47:4

[47:4]
4. So, when you meet , those who disbelieve smite at their necks till when you have killed and wounded many of them, then bind a bond firmly (on them, i.e. take them as captives). Thereafter (is the time) either for generosity (i.e. free them without ransom), or ransom (according to what benefits
Islam), until the war lays down its burden. Thus [you are ordered by Allah to continue in carrying out Jihad against the disbelievers till they embrace Islam (i.e. are saved from the punishment in the Hell-fire) or at least come under your protection], but if it had been Allah's Will, He Himself could certainly have punished them (without you). But (He lets you fight), in order to test you, some with others. But those who are killed in the Way of Allah, He will never let their deeds be lost,


Remember verse 22:39 was the first verse where THe muslims at medina were given right to fight back in self defense .

[22:39]
39. Permission to fight is given to those (i.e. believers against disbelievers), who are fighting them, (and) because they (believers) have been wronged, and surely, Allah is Able to give them (believers) victory
[22:40]
40. Those who have been expelled from their homes unjustly only because they said: "Our Lord is Allah." - For had it not been that Allah checks one set of people by means of another, monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques, wherein the Name of Allah is mentioned much would surely have been pulled down. Verily, Allah will help those who help His (Cause). Truly, Allah is All-Strong, All-Mighty.


it simple if someone attacks you and wants to kill you what will you do. stand there and say hey hill me rape my kid and my wife.. no you will stop him /her and it means to kill him you will,

that was the case, it just so happens theunbelievers were the ones who were oppressing and killing muslims in mecca and drove them out of there homes.

look at the history. so nothing to discus . if you dont agree well. thats your right. i just believe if someone comes in to my house and want to kill my family i will defend myself and if i have to i will kill to protec myfamily and myself. simple

read you will see its self defense.

chpater 8 verses quoted is contnuation on the self defense nothing to explain. if you meet in a battle what do one do 'stand there and say hey kill me'. i dont think so.

some background info on chapter 9 of Quran


[ February 04, 2002: Message edited by: Don Morgan ]</p>

jojo-sa

some background info on chapter 22 quran

Name
This Sura takes its name from v. 27.

Period of Revelation ....

---------
---------

This post from jojo-sa, like many other of his posts, was a cut and paste -- without attribution -- of an article from one of the many pro-Islam websites. This particular article can be read at several sites. A Link is provided below:

<a href="http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/quran/maududi/i022.htm" target="_blank"> Witness-Pioneer, An Islamic Webgroup</a>

--

Note to jojo-sa: you may use short quotes -- with proper attribution -- from other websites to support a point you wish to make, but in the future do not post what amounts to a whole article (or nearly so) from other websites, rather link to them, as I have done.

Thanks,
--Don--

---------
---------

[ February 04, 2002: Message edited by: Don Morgan ]</p>

jojo-sa

Background info for hinduwoman on chapter 8 of Quran

Name
The Sura takes its name AL-ANFAL (The Bounties) from the first verse.

The Period of Revelation ....

---------
---------

This post from jojo-sa, like many other of his posts, was a cut and paste -- without attribution -- of an entire article from one of the many pro-Islam websites. This particular article can be read at several sites. Links to two of those sites are provided here:

<a href="http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/quran/maududi/i008.htm" target="_blank"> Witness-Pioneer, An Islamic Webgroup</a>

<a href="http://www.isgkc.org/Maududi/mau8.htm" target="_blank">Islamic Society of Greater Kansas City</a>

--

Note to jojo-sa: you may use short quotes -- with proper attribution -- from other websites to support a point you wish to make, but in the future do not post what amounts to whole articles from other websites, rather link to them, as I have done.

Thanks,
--Don--

---------
---------

[ February 04, 2002: Message edited by: Don Morgan ]</p>

HelenM

-DM-

Having lived and worked in Iran, I have seen that so-called "moral superiority" first hand. I'll take our allegedly moral inferiority any time.

In my opinion, our system of law and justice, in spite of its many shortcomings, is vastly superior. In my opinion, our treatment of woman and children is vastly superior. The inhumanity of Muslim to Muslim which I saw in the off-the-beaten-path small villages in Iran was heart-breaking.

Yes, It was a number of years ago that I lived and worked in Iran, but has Islamic morality changed in the interim?

--Don--