Freethought & Rationalism Archive

ps418 · 11-06-2002, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Sweep: One of the best things about eating is that you won't damage your lungs. Another good thing about it is that you won't be breathing in any monoxides, which destroy brain cells and add up to a cloudy high.

Those are definitely important benefits of eating versus/smoking. In general, inhaling smoke is just not a good thing. Plus, the psychoactive effects associated with oral cannabis are different from that of smoked cannabis, because a different set of psychoactive substances is produced during breakdown of the cannabis (such as 11 hydroxy delta 9 THC, which is produced in the liver via breakdown of delta 9 THC).

But then, eating cannabis has its drawbacks as well. First, you have to wait ~2 hours for the effects to develop, which makes it very hard to properly regulate the dose (as opposed to smoking, when you simply stop when the desired effect is achieved). This makes it very easy to take too much or too little. This also makes oral cannabis not much good for anti-nausea, anti-emetic treatment for chemo patients, who will have long since vomited before achieving any relief. There is a short description on <a href="http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v01/n1626/a02.html" target="_blank">this page</a> about the use of an under-the-tongue cannabis analgesic spray, which apparently was very effective for most patients. Something like this (a spray or an aerosol) is the future for therapeutic cannabis. It would probably also reduce the harm associated with recreational use, but I wouldnt look for it at the local liquor store any time soon. . .

Second, the psychoactive effects persist much longer. Which is not necesarily bad for some users (e.g. a medical user with chronic pain), although in some cases it could be.

Third, eating cannabis is only about half as efficient as smoking it. You'd need about 2 grams per dose, assuming 2.5% THC cannabis, and an effective dose of about 0.3mg per kg of body weight.

In passing, the federal Institute of Medicine's 1999 report
<a href="http://www.nap.edu/html/marimed/index.html" target="_blank">Marijuana and Medicine: Assessing the Science Base, </a> is available online. It contains lots of good information.

crab juice · 11-06-2002, 04:35 PM

I have a vaporizer from the page I linked in my previous post, and I do like it, but the sensation and taste are different from a (my usual method) pipe. I'm not sure how similar it is to the ones tested (technical details are not my strong suit). I also like that it doesn't look quite so paraphernalia-ish as many of the others I've seen (mine doubles as an aromatherapy oil burner, and doesn't resemble the high-school-shop-project vaps that most people probably envision). I would recommend it.

ps418 · 11-13-2002, 05:09 PM

There are two papers that recently appeared in the Journal of Clinical Pharmacology reviewing the long-term cognitive effects of cannabis. Slightly OT, but interesting nonetheless.

One paper consisted on new research. This one administered a number of <a href="http://mtdesk.com/lstpsych.shtml" target="_blank">neuropsychological tests</a> to 77 current heavy smokers who have smoked at least 5000 times, and to a control group of 87 subjects who have smoked no more than 50 times in their lives. Significant differences in word memory were found between the groups at 0,1, and 7 days following cessation, but the differences between the groups virtually disappeared after a few weeks of abstinance. According to the authors, the findings "suggest that cannabis-associated cognitive deficits are reversible and related to recent cannabis exposure rather than irreversible and related to cumulative lifetime use" (Cognitive measures in long-term cannabis users. J Clin Pharmacol 2002 42:11, pp. 41-47).

The other study was a review of 40 previous studies. It reported that although just over half (22) of the studies reported subtle residual impairment, "the authors could not detect consistent evidence for persisting neuropsychological deficits in cannabis users" (Nonacute (residual) neuropsychological effects of cannabis use: a qualitative analysis and systematic review. J Clin Pharmacol 2002 42:11, pp. 48-57).

[ November 13, 2002: Message edited by: ps418 ]</p>

sweep · 11-14-2002, 07:00 AM

thanks for all the research material ps418- I've enjoyed reading it, and even learned a bit more.

what line of work are you in, if you don't mind telling?

Barney Gumble · 11-15-2002, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sweep:
<strong>

Barney: try eating hashish with some porridge or yogurt. I would suggest doing weed in a frying pan wiht butter but that can be wasteful and It is difficult to get the full benefits from weed this way.
</strong>

Would, but I'm finding hash is extremely difficult to come by around these parts right now. Weed is no problem, but I don't have the contacts for hashish.

I'm strongly looking at eating as well, but my gf wasn't too enthused about the weed butter last time she did it. If and when I do get some hash I'll give it a shot though.

Interesting links and info all around though guys.

Fritz The Kat · 11-17-2002, 02:02 PM

Great stuff guys.
I'm new to the forum, but have toked since 1971. I've spent a whole week stoned and went many months without {Dope will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no dope. ~The Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers).

I agree that smoking is bad, but it's also the best way to get high. Eating it doesn't get me as high, but it lasts a lot longer. Best compromise is eat a brownie, smoke a joint, spend the day at Disney World. Better take a straight friend along to keep you from getting stuck in "It's A Small World".

Deliver the high of a joint without the respetory problems and the world will beat a path to your door... at least us stoners will.

Oh yeah, if you smoked a joint and didn't get high, you need a better connection.
Peace

ps418 · 11-30-2002, 06:49 AM

Here's another abstract concerning the affects of cannabis on cognitive ability that appeared in Neuropsychopharmacology. In a nutshell "acute marijuana smoking produced minimal effects on complex cognitive task performance in experienced marijuana users," although it did increase reaction time and frequency of premature responses.

Quote:

Although the ability to perform complex cognitive operations is assumed to be impaired following acute marijuana smoking, complex cognitive performance after acute marijuana use has not been adequately assessed under experimental conditions. In the present study, we used a within-participant double-blind design to evaluate the effects acute marijuana smoking on complex cognitive performance in experienced marijuana smokers. Eighteen healthy research volunteers (8 females, 10 males), averaging 24 marijuana cigarettes per week, completed this three-session outpatient study; sessions were separated by at least 72-hrs. During sessions, participants completed baseline computerized cognitive tasks, smoked a single marijuana cigarette (0%, 1.8%, or 3.9% Delta(9)-THC w/w), and completed additional cognitive tasks. Blood pressure, heart rate, and subjective effects were also assessed throughout sessions. Marijuana cigarettes were administered in a double-blind fashion and the sequence of Delta(9)-THC concentration order was balanced across participants. Although marijuana significantly increased the number of premature responses and the time participants required to complete several tasks, it had no effect on accuracy on measures of cognitive flexibility, mental calculation, and reasoning. Additionally, heart rate and several subjective-effect ratings (e.g., "Good Drug Effect," "High," "Mellow") were significantly increased in a Delta(9)-THC concentration-dependent manner. These data demonstrate that acute marijuana smoking produced minimal effects on complex cognitive task performance in experienced marijuana users.

<a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=116822 59&dopt=Abstract" target="_blank">Effects of acute smoked marijuana on complex cognitive performance. Neuropsychopharmacology 2001 Nov;25(5):757-65.</a>

sweep · 11-30-2002, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Here's another abstract concerning the affects of cannabis on cognitive ability that appeared in Neuropsychopharmacology. In a nutshell "acute marijuana smoking produced minimal effects on complex cognitive task performance in experienced marijuana users," although it did increase reaction time and frequency of premature responses.

I would like to know what the results would be if the subjects were tested once they came down from the cannabis high.

some good reading there ps418-

ps418 · 12-09-2002, 03:33 PM

An interesting new Nature medicine pre-print article is available online.

The psychological effect of cannabis is mediated by the interaction of THC with CB1 cannabinoid receptors. There are also endogenous chemicals in the brain, known as anandamides, that normally interact with these cannabinoid receptors. Think of this as endogenous THC. There is also a particular enzyme, fatty acid amide hydrolase, that breaks down anandamide.

What the research in the Nature medicine article describes is the introduction of fatty acid amide hydrolase inhibitors in experimental rats, which resulted in elevated concentrations of anandamide ("endogenous THC") in the rats, which in turn was shown to produce a 'anxiety-reducing' effects similar to those produced by benzodiazepines.

I wonder what sort of response would be produced in humans? I wonder if the buildup of anandamine in humans would produce subjective effects similar to smoking cannabis? If the same enzyme that breaks down anandamine also breaks down THC, then it is likely that the enzyme could greatly enhance the subjective effects of THC, or at least make them last longer.

Quote:

The psychoactive constituent of cannabis, 9-tetrahydrocannabinol, produces in humans subjective responses mediated by CB1 cannabinoid receptors, indicating that endogenous cannabinoids may contribute to the control of emotion. But the variable effects of 9-tetrahydrocannabinol obscure the interpretation of these results and limit the therapeutic potential of direct cannabinoid agonists. An alternative approach may be to develop drugs that amplify the effects of endogenous cannabinoids by preventing their inactivation. Here we describe a class of potent, selective and systemically active inhibitors of fatty acid amide hydrolase, the enzyme responsible for the degradation of the endogenous cannabinoid anandamide. Like clinically used anti-anxiety drugs, in rats the inhibitors exhibit benzodiazepine-like properties in the elevated zero-maze test and suppress isolation-induced vocalizations. These effects are accompanied by augmented brain levels of anandamide and are prevented by CB1 receptor blockade. Our results indicate that anandamide participates in the modulation of emotional states and point to fatty acid amide hydrolase inhibition as an innovative approach to anti-anxiety therapy.

Modulation of anxiety through blockade of anandamide hydrolysis. Published online: 2 December 2002.

[ December 09, 2002: Message edited by: ps418 ]</p>

Mr. Sammi · 12-14-2002, 06:48 AM

sweep, I believe you have omitted the effects of legal-pot and illegal-pot.

Having lived in The Netherlands where marajuana is legal, I never noticed the effects you were outlining. I believe the effects of which you speak manifest because of the paranoia and the sneaky hidey manner of doing the illegal thing.

Sammi Na Boodie ()

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11-06-2002, 04:35 PM	#22
crab juice Regular Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: A million miles away... Posts: 229	I have a vaporizer from the page I linked in my previous post, and I do like it, but the sensation and taste are different from a (my usual method) pipe. I'm not sure how similar it is to the ones tested (technical details are not my strong suit). I also like that it doesn't look quite so paraphernalia-ish as many of the others I've seen (mine doubles as an aromatherapy oil burner, and doesn't resemble the high-school-shop-project vaps that most people probably envision). I would recommend it.

11-13-2002, 05:09 PM	#23
ps418 Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Louisville, KY, USA Posts: 1,840	There are two papers that recently appeared in the Journal of Clinical Pharmacology reviewing the long-term cognitive effects of cannabis. Slightly OT, but interesting nonetheless. One paper consisted on new research. This one administered a number of <a href="http://mtdesk.com/lstpsych.shtml" target="_blank">neuropsychological tests</a> to 77 current heavy smokers who have smoked at least 5000 times, and to a control group of 87 subjects who have smoked no more than 50 times in their lives. Significant differences in word memory were found between the groups at 0,1, and 7 days following cessation, but the differences between the groups virtually disappeared after a few weeks of abstinance. According to the authors, the findings "suggest that cannabis-associated cognitive deficits are reversible and related to recent cannabis exposure rather than irreversible and related to cumulative lifetime use" (Cognitive measures in long-term cannabis users. J Clin Pharmacol 2002 42:11, pp. 41-47). The other study was a review of 40 previous studies. It reported that although just over half (22) of the studies reported subtle residual impairment, "the authors could not detect consistent evidence for persisting neuropsychological deficits in cannabis users" (Nonacute (residual) neuropsychological effects of cannabis use: a qualitative analysis and systematic review. J Clin Pharmacol 2002 42:11, pp. 48-57). [ November 13, 2002: Message edited by: ps418 ]</p>

11-14-2002, 07:00 AM	#24
sweep Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: sugar factory Posts: 873	thanks for all the research material ps418- I've enjoyed reading it, and even learned a bit more. what line of work are you in, if you don't mind telling?

11-17-2002, 02:02 PM	#26
Fritz The Kat New Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: The New South Posts: 3	Great stuff guys. I'm new to the forum, but have toked since 1971. I've spent a whole week stoned and went many months without {Dope will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no dope. ~The Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers). I agree that smoking is bad, but it's also the best way to get high. Eating it doesn't get me as high, but it lasts a lot longer. Best compromise is eat a brownie, smoke a joint, spend the day at Disney World. Better take a straight friend along to keep you from getting stuck in "It's A Small World". Deliver the high of a joint without the respetory problems and the world will beat a path to your door... at least us stoners will. Oh yeah, if you smoked a joint and didn't get high, you need a better connection. Peace

12-14-2002, 06:48 AM	#30
Mr. Sammi Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Montr�al Posts: 367	sweep, I believe you have omitted the effects of legal-pot and illegal-pot. Having lived in The Netherlands where marajuana is legal, I never noticed the effects you were outlining. I believe the effects of which you speak manifest because of the paranoia and the sneaky hidey manner of doing the illegal thing. Sammi Na Boodie ()

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