Freethought & Rationalism Archive

sweep · 10-29-2002, 05:26 AM

this notion first came to light following a six month, total break, from cannabis. When I first started taking it there wasn't a reason to question the effects, and only after several years could I make a qualified judgement on the matter. here is my hypothesis:

the first time you take cannabis, there isn't any change to your mind: no increase in adrenaline, no enhanced conduction across the nerves. after six months of being without and consuming, orally, a biscuit laden with weed, there wasn't any change to perceive. BUT, if you take enough the effects will be felt.

the key here is the 'come down' from cannabis. I think that the brain adapts to cannabis use and, in a way similar to nicotine, comes to need the drug. the symptoms of this need, are irritability and lack of concentration. In order for the brain to work properly again, the user must ingest cannabis, and when the brain is able to operate normally, the user mistakes the feeling of normalcy with feeling high. During the time a user has no cannabis, it is possible to feel 'spaced' depressed, and generally becomes unreceptive to life.

during the high, the user experiences 'enhanced' perception and keen sensations. I posit that the majority of these sensations come about from the feelings that non-users experience everyday. non- users don't feel high as feeling high is normal: there is no differential. the cannabis user construes 'normal' as 'high' as the comedown constitutes the differential in terms of ones own mental state. As every user knows, the high is short lived, and if you're honest, the come down involves a loss of feeling. thereby the enhanced perception is enlightening, and it is possible, lures the user into a false sense of 'realisation', which is false in the sense that the realisation was made perceptible by way of the differential. 'Normal' non-users, operate at this level yet normalcy is not alway appreciable, as appreciation requires change. In other words the cannabis user appreciates feeling normal, and gains a lot from a short space of time (spaced, phased), but less in comparison to the 'normal', non-user.

for those who take it for the first time, the differential is a genuine step from normal to high, which includes increased conduction across the nerves, and increased heart rate, blood pressure etc. After the first time the brain operates below the standard for that individual.

[ October 29, 2002: Message edited by: sweep ]

Lord Asriel · 10-29-2002, 06:01 AM

Whoa dude, that is just like....so true!

livius drusus · 10-29-2002, 06:06 AM

I wouldn't exactly call it a hypothesis, sweep, not in the scientific sense anyway. It's really more of a notion. Click <a href="http://www.pdxnorml.org/brain1.html" target="_blank">here</a> for a look at some of the recent research on THC receptors and <a href="http://www.pdxnorml.org/brain2.html" target="_blank">here</a> for a more specific look at THC tolerance and the brain. The articles are from High Times, which obviously has a rather clear point of view on the subject, but they are peppered with hard data and links.

Moving to Science & Skepticism before the stoners get a hold of it. Oops, too late.

Marduk · 10-29-2002, 06:16 AM

ummmm yeah I was going to say something about that thing you were talking about...uh
boy I'm really hungry

sweep · 10-29-2002, 06:51 AM

Quote:

The architects of marijuana prohibition have long maintained that tolerance to cannabis means the same thing as tolerance to addictive drugs like cocaine and heroin - that users need more and more to get high, driving them to crime and desperation. Now, the federal government's own research indicates that precisely the opposite is true. Science has finally caught on to what tokers have known all along: With marijuana tolerance, you have to smoke less to get high! High Times correspondent Jon Gettman explains the latest findings and how they discredit the government's drug policy.

so far, I can't see how this is true.

In the summer of 2000, I got my first taste of immunity to cannabis. I could smoke it pure and I wouldn't get any effect.

livius drusus · 10-29-2002, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sweep:
In the summer of 2000, I got my first taste of immunity to cannabis. I could smoke it pure and I wouldn't get any effect.

Well, your experience is not necessarily the norm, although I have noticed it takes me an extra hit or two to get high when I've been on a heavy use kick. A few days on the wagon and a new bag takes care of that problem. Even so, that is in no way comparable to the mechanics of addiction in cocaine or heroin users.

Also, what exactly is impure cannabis, may I ask? As far as I know, that's pretty much how it comes. Unless you got screwed on a dirty bag of shake cut with oregano or something. Maybe you were referring to smoking a j with tobacco or a nice fat blunt? I've actually found a weed/baccy blend to be more intoxicating than "pure" cannabis so I don't think that would really support your point.

Vibr8gKiwi · 10-29-2002, 07:44 AM

It makes me feel stupid. I remember thinking things while high like: I wonder if this is what it's like to be autistic... or I can't keep my attention on anything--this is how dogs must feel all the time.

It's interesting on the rare occasion, but I can't imagine why anyone would use it that much--why would anyone want to feel stupid like that often (unless their lives just sucked).

ps418 · 10-29-2002, 01:00 PM

Regarding this subject, let me highly recommend <a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0964156849/qid=1035927965/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_1/104-7834840-8111118?v=glance&n=507846" target="_blank">Marijuana Myths Marijuana Facts: A Review Of The Scientific Evidence,</a> by Lynn Zimmer and John P. Morgan.

Quote:

Sweep: I think that the brain adapts to cannabis use and, in a way similar to nicotine, comes to need the drug. the symptoms of this need, are irritability and lack of concentration.

Actually, even these mild withdrawal symptoms are relatively rare, even upon cessation by high-dose users. For instance, a recent survey in the journal Addiction has only 16% of high-dose users reporting withdrawal symptoms of any kind upon cessation, the most common being restlessness and sleep disturbance (Wiesback et al., 1996. An evaluation of the history of a marijuana withdrawal syndrome in a large population. Addiction 91, pp.1469-1478). The studies most commonly cited in this regard involve huge, repeated oral or intravenous doses of THC that do not remotely aproximate real--world usage patterns.

Patrick

Kharakov · 10-29-2002, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lord Asriel:
Whoa dude, that is just like....so true!

You ever wonder why they call them fingers? I've never seen them fing.... Ohh, there they go.

sweep · 10-29-2002, 06:36 PM

Quote:

what exactly is impure cannabis, may I ask?

sorry, I mean fat joints with so many sticky flower hearts as I can bung into them.

please bear in mind that, in case you thought, that I am NOT making a case against the use of the drug. I am more interested in the differential, in terms of sensations and of the fleeting adrenaline rush that immediately arises following a blast.

Quote:

Actually, even these mild withdrawal symptoms are relatively rare, even upon cessation by high-dose users. For instance, a recent survey in the journal Addiction has only 16% of high-dose users reporting withdrawal symptoms of any kind upon cessation, the most common being restlessness and sleep disturbance

thank u for the source ps418- I would like to add that the sensations I have reported need not be necessarily stigmatised. Thereby, the users were asked to report 'negative' sensations, which include irritability and depression. Were the subjects asked if they felt 'spaced', or feeling numb, and would these sensations be regarded as having negative impact, in accordance with the objective of the study?

I assert that the spaced head, is a common feeling to most users, although this may not be deemed a negative factor.

Secondly, I would question the context in which the study was set. On a quiet country farm, with classical vibes, warm food and friendly company, I doubt whether a stress reaction might be recorded at all, thus rendering the results invalid.

Vibr8Gkiwi, it also makes me feel stupid. particularly when I have to try and strike up some enthusiasm when my little niece wants to play, or when everyone else is rushing about, and I'm loping around like Jack Nicholson, like in 'One flew over the cuckoo's nest'

10-29-2002, 05:26 AM	#1
sweep Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: sugar factory Posts: 873	cannabis high: an effect of a dysfunctional brain? this notion first came to light following a six month, total break, from cannabis. When I first started taking it there wasn't a reason to question the effects, and only after several years could I make a qualified judgement on the matter. here is my hypothesis: the first time you take cannabis, there isn't any change to your mind: no increase in adrenaline, no enhanced conduction across the nerves. after six months of being without and consuming, orally, a biscuit laden with weed, there wasn't any change to perceive. BUT, if you take enough the effects will be felt. the key here is the 'come down' from cannabis. I think that the brain adapts to cannabis use and, in a way similar to nicotine, comes to need the drug. the symptoms of this need, are irritability and lack of concentration. In order for the brain to work properly again, the user must ingest cannabis, and when the brain is able to operate normally, the user mistakes the feeling of normalcy with feeling high. During the time a user has no cannabis, it is possible to feel 'spaced' depressed, and generally becomes unreceptive to life. during the high, the user experiences 'enhanced' perception and keen sensations. I posit that the majority of these sensations come about from the feelings that non-users experience everyday. non- users don't feel high as feeling high is normal: there is no differential. the cannabis user construes 'normal' as 'high' as the comedown constitutes the differential in terms of ones own mental state. As every user knows, the high is short lived, and if you're honest, the come down involves a loss of feeling. thereby the enhanced perception is enlightening, and it is possible, lures the user into a false sense of 'realisation', which is false in the sense that the realisation was made perceptible by way of the differential. 'Normal' non-users, operate at this level yet normalcy is not alway appreciable, as appreciation requires change. In other words the cannabis user appreciates feeling normal, and gains a lot from a short space of time (spaced, phased), but less in comparison to the 'normal', non-user. for those who take it for the first time, the differential is a genuine step from normal to high, which includes increased conduction across the nerves, and increased heart rate, blood pressure etc. After the first time the brain operates below the standard for that individual. [ October 29, 2002: Message edited by: sweep ]</p>

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10-29-2002, 06:01 AM	#2
Lord Asriel Regular Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Essex, UK Posts: 467	Whoa dude, that is just like....so true!

10-29-2002, 06:06 AM	#3
livius drusus Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Selva Oscura Posts: 4,120	I wouldn't exactly call it a hypothesis, sweep, not in the scientific sense anyway. It's really more of a notion. Click <a href="http://www.pdxnorml.org/brain1.html" target="_blank">here</a> for a look at some of the recent research on THC receptors and <a href="http://www.pdxnorml.org/brain2.html" target="_blank">here</a> for a more specific look at THC tolerance and the brain. The articles are from High Times, which obviously has a rather clear point of view on the subject, but they are peppered with hard data and links. Moving to Science & Skepticism before the stoners get a hold of it. Oops, too late.

10-29-2002, 06:16 AM	#4
Marduk Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: the 10th planet Posts: 5,065	ummmm yeah I was going to say something about that thing you were talking about...uh boy I'm really hungry

10-29-2002, 07:44 AM	#7
Vibr8gKiwi Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: CA, USA Posts: 543	It makes me feel stupid. I remember thinking things while high like: I wonder if this is what it's like to be autistic... or I can't keep my attention on anything--this is how dogs must feel all the time. It's interesting on the rare occasion, but I can't imagine why anyone would use it that much--why would anyone want to feel stupid like that often (unless their lives just sucked).

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