Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Bobzammel · 11-23-2002, 11:25 AM

One of the stranger Christian sites out there is no doubt <a href="http://www.voiceofjesus.org." target="_blank">www.voiceofjesus.org.</a> It's a page run by Edgar Jones(or "Brother Ed") a war vet. He seems to have taken the Christian extremes, going for a literal hate of family and life, among other things. One particuarly alarming passage even states that what man thinks is Good, is therefore evil in the eyes of God, and what man considers evil is good in the eyes of God(Wonderful logic here...

) Plus he has some really bizzare scientific views about God. The man has even renounced his citizenship.

However it seems he's the typical hypocrite or Cafeteria Christian--he chooses what he likes and ignores the rest. For instance he has a serious problem with Paul, and seems to totally ignore most of the OT.

Seems like another Christian who is sealed himself up in a bubble...

beoba · 11-23-2002, 12:12 PM

Welcome to the forums!

The color scheme on that site is almost as disgusting as the contents.

Bobzammel · 11-23-2002, 05:50 PM

THIS SITE IS THE MOST DANGEROUS SITE ON THE INTERNET. ANYBODY WHO IS HALF DECENT KNOWS THAT THIS SITE MUST BE SHUT DOWN AS SOON AS POSSIBLE!

LordSnooty · 11-23-2002, 06:28 PM

Bobzammel · 11-23-2002, 07:30 PM

Sorry, a little drunk earlier. Anyway, the site is kind of depressing, isn't it? Plus full of the usual Christian hypocrisy. The guy preaches against family and enjoyment of life, but then goes on to say it's fine to live a normal lifestyle and take a wife.

It seems the guy is a sort of dissilusioned vet--check out his "documents" section for some pretty goofy stuff he's sent to the US Government. Not as fun as Dore Williamson's stuff, but kind of nutty not the less.

[ November 23, 2002: Message edited by: Bobzammel ]</p>

Hubble head · 11-24-2002, 08:44 AM

Sites like this don't need to be shut down, they need to be plastered out in plain view for all to see and point a finger at. Just say HAAa-Ha.

I'd guess this guy was exceptionally incapable of dealing with his battlefield scars. I'd also say at some point in his life he was forced out of his first church by xians who saw an oddly mentally ill man.

That's just my guess...

Give it the standard treatment. Join his forum and post links to this site. Include a cut and pasting of all the wise secular quotes you can stuff in one post. Dare him to read them all. Then call the FBI and say he said he wanted to kill that one person you don't ever say you want to kill in this country.

Well, that last part may be a little over the top.

[ November 24, 2002: Message edited by: science ]</p>

Bobzammel · 11-24-2002, 11:25 AM

Another odd thing is that he admits that the bible has mistakes and contradictions. However he seems to totally glance over this when it comes to the gospels--which themselves are full of contradictions! He seems to mainly want to pick on the Old Testament and the Epistles, and totally ignore errors of the Gospels. This sort of sets him apart from most fundamentalists, but it also hurts his own credibility. It's like those people who list the similarities between Christianity and other religions, and then go back and say "Satan did it!". He's produced his own freaking counter-argument! If the bible is not to be taken literally, than why is he taking it literally?

[ November 24, 2002: Message edited by: Bobzammel ]</p>

Bobzammel · 11-25-2002, 12:39 PM

Check out this rant:

1. In so far as human beings are concerned, the will of God is one thing absolutely exclusive of all other things: "Come home to me!" But we cannot go until that is also our will. The choice is ours. That, and whatever contributes to it, is God�s only will for human beings. The will of God is done on earth only when a human being desires, out of the love of God, to transfer to heaven.

2. Life is the term used to define our individual experience of the world. Most human beings have a love of life, interpreted to mean that they do not want to lose life. This is the desire for survival or self-preservation. Defining "evil" as whatever opposes the will of God, then the love of life in this world is the essence of evil. If we define sin as whatever we do that opposes the will of God, then the love of life is the essence of sin. War and oppression spring directly from the love of life as human beings respond to threats.

3. The love of God is the supremely radical idea. Human beings do not love God until they desire in their hearts to go to him where he is. Human beings who love God do not want to remain in the world, and thus can be said to hate the life in this world. We are not justified in God�s sight until we desire to go to him. Only that human being is righteous who truly desires from the heart to go to the Father. He awaits our free choice.

4. If we define any kingdom as the realm where the will of a king is done, it follows that the kingdom of God is come on earth only when the will of God is done on earth. This occurs only when a human being on the earth desires to go to God in love, that being God�s only will for human beings. When this is first done by a leader whom others follow in the Way, then it can be said that God rules the earth and his kingdom has come finally and completely, solely because the world is fulfilling His purpose in creating it. This has no essential reference to conditions on the earth, whether peace or war, or famine or feast.

5. The patterns of the world correspond to the realities of heaven, and compete with heaven for the devotion of the individual. Devotion to these patterns that include family, race and state are contrary to the will of the Father and are rooted in evil.

6. There is no glorious future for the world or anything in it, including the earth. All things will pass away. The belief in and desire for a glorious future for the earth is indicative of attachment to the earth � to love of life on the earth � and therefore comes from evil.

7. It is and must remain impossible to prove the existence of God, heaven, and eternal life. Such a proof would work to coerce the freedom of the will and make void the purpose of God. The continuing hiddenness of both God and heaven are of the essence.

8. It is easily seen that the world and all it contains stands over against the will of God as an object of devotion even when fulfilling His purpose. It is therefore a "necessary evil" in its totality. Life on earth � the totality of earthly existence � is for human beings the evil option because it is not what God desires. The essential choices therefore are all either/or, never both/and.

9. There must be a continuous chain of witnesses in the world who will proclaim the truth to their fellows after having chosen the Way. Therefore each individual must remain in the world until his time before going to the Father. Suicide is not appropriate, as it is a testing of God�s willingness to receive us.

Sandslice · 11-27-2002, 06:48 AM

The latest one? Check out their #16. Apparently, xians are supposed to be anarchists. (Basically, "render unto Caesar... render unto god" means that one should not pledge loyalty to a nation, because that would be rendering unto Caesar that which is god's.)

And this is disgusting in extremis

Quote:

Those words are the sperm (Greek, seed) that, if received, impregnate our hearts and produce the birth of the children of God.

I'm sorry to say it... but if there's sperm floatin' around inside yer heart, there's somethin' wrong with ya :

:

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11-23-2002, 11:25 AM	#1
Bobzammel Regular Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Boston Posts: 276	Voiceofjesus.org One of the stranger Christian sites out there is no doubt <a href="http://www.voiceofjesus.org." target="_blank">www.voiceofjesus.org.</a> It's a page run by Edgar Jones(or "Brother Ed") a war vet. He seems to have taken the Christian extremes, going for a literal hate of family and life, among other things. One particuarly alarming passage even states that what man thinks is Good, is therefore evil in the eyes of God, and what man considers evil is good in the eyes of God(Wonderful logic here... ) Plus he has some really bizzare scientific views about God. The man has even renounced his citizenship. However it seems he's the typical hypocrite or Cafeteria Christian--he chooses what he likes and ignores the rest. For instance he has a serious problem with Paul, and seems to totally ignore most of the OT. Seems like another Christian who is sealed himself up in a bubble...

11-23-2002, 12:12 PM	#2
beoba Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Boston Posts: 699	Welcome to the forums! The color scheme on that site is almost as disgusting as the contents.

11-23-2002, 05:50 PM	#3
Bobzammel Regular Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Boston Posts: 276	THIS SITE IS THE MOST DANGEROUS SITE ON THE INTERNET. ANYBODY WHO IS HALF DECENT KNOWS THAT THIS SITE MUST BE SHUT DOWN AS SOON AS POSSIBLE!

11-23-2002, 06:28 PM	#4
LordSnooty Regular Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: England Posts: 211	<img src="confused.gif" border="0">

11-23-2002, 07:30 PM	#5
Bobzammel Regular Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Boston Posts: 276	Sorry, a little drunk earlier. Anyway, the site is kind of depressing, isn't it? Plus full of the usual Christian hypocrisy. The guy preaches against family and enjoyment of life, but then goes on to say it's fine to live a normal lifestyle and take a wife. It seems the guy is a sort of dissilusioned vet--check out his "documents" section for some pretty goofy stuff he's sent to the US Government. Not as fun as Dore Williamson's stuff, but kind of nutty not the less. [ November 23, 2002: Message edited by: Bobzammel ]</p>

11-24-2002, 08:44 AM	#6
Hubble head Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Corn rows Posts: 4,570	Sites like this don't need to be shut down, they need to be plastered out in plain view for all to see and point a finger at. Just say HAAa-Ha. I'd guess this guy was exceptionally incapable of dealing with his battlefield scars. I'd also say at some point in his life he was forced out of his first church by xians who saw an oddly mentally ill man. That's just my guess... Give it the standard treatment. Join his forum and post links to this site. Include a cut and pasting of all the wise secular quotes you can stuff in one post. Dare him to read them all. Then call the FBI and say he said he wanted to kill that one person you don't ever say you want to kill in this country. Well, that last part may be a little over the top. [ November 24, 2002: Message edited by: science ]</p>

11-24-2002, 11:25 AM	#7
Bobzammel Regular Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Boston Posts: 276	Another odd thing is that he admits that the bible has mistakes and contradictions. However he seems to totally glance over this when it comes to the gospels--which themselves are full of contradictions! He seems to mainly want to pick on the Old Testament and the Epistles, and totally ignore errors of the Gospels. This sort of sets him apart from most fundamentalists, but it also hurts his own credibility. It's like those people who list the similarities between Christianity and other religions, and then go back and say "Satan did it!". He's produced his own freaking counter-argument! If the bible is not to be taken literally, than why is he taking it literally? [ November 24, 2002: Message edited by: Bobzammel ]</p>

11-25-2002, 12:39 PM	#8
Bobzammel Regular Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Boston Posts: 276	Check out this rant: 1. In so far as human beings are concerned, the will of God is one thing absolutely exclusive of all other things: "Come home to me!" But we cannot go until that is also our will. The choice is ours. That, and whatever contributes to it, is God�s only will for human beings. The will of God is done on earth only when a human being desires, out of the love of God, to transfer to heaven. 2. Life is the term used to define our individual experience of the world. Most human beings have a love of life, interpreted to mean that they do not want to lose life. This is the desire for survival or self-preservation. Defining "evil" as whatever opposes the will of God, then the love of life in this world is the essence of evil. If we define sin as whatever we do that opposes the will of God, then the love of life is the essence of sin. War and oppression spring directly from the love of life as human beings respond to threats. 3. The love of God is the supremely radical idea. Human beings do not love God until they desire in their hearts to go to him where he is. Human beings who love God do not want to remain in the world, and thus can be said to hate the life in this world. We are not justified in God�s sight until we desire to go to him. Only that human being is righteous who truly desires from the heart to go to the Father. He awaits our free choice. 4. If we define any kingdom as the realm where the will of a king is done, it follows that the kingdom of God is come on earth only when the will of God is done on earth. This occurs only when a human being on the earth desires to go to God in love, that being God�s only will for human beings. When this is first done by a leader whom others follow in the Way, then it can be said that God rules the earth and his kingdom has come finally and completely, solely because the world is fulfilling His purpose in creating it. This has no essential reference to conditions on the earth, whether peace or war, or famine or feast. 5. The patterns of the world correspond to the realities of heaven, and compete with heaven for the devotion of the individual. Devotion to these patterns that include family, race and state are contrary to the will of the Father and are rooted in evil. 6. There is no glorious future for the world or anything in it, including the earth. All things will pass away. The belief in and desire for a glorious future for the earth is indicative of attachment to the earth � to love of life on the earth � and therefore comes from evil. 7. It is and must remain impossible to prove the existence of God, heaven, and eternal life. Such a proof would work to coerce the freedom of the will and make void the purpose of God. The continuing hiddenness of both God and heaven are of the essence. 8. It is easily seen that the world and all it contains stands over against the will of God as an object of devotion even when fulfilling His purpose. It is therefore a "necessary evil" in its totality. Life on earth � the totality of earthly existence � is for human beings the evil option because it is not what God desires. The essential choices therefore are all either/or, never both/and. 9. There must be a continuous chain of witnesses in the world who will proclaim the truth to their fellows after having chosen the Way. Therefore each individual must remain in the world until his time before going to the Father. Suicide is not appropriate, as it is a testing of God�s willingness to receive us.

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