SecularFuture

Natural phenomenons are mistaken as being supernatural all of the time. People at one time thought that rain was caused by supernatural agents. To avoid this error in judgment, and before you can call something supernatural with the reason to do so, you must first have a complete understanding of natural phenomenon.

Aradia

My suggested terminology would be "theistic religion/theistic religionist". Still not 100% accurate, but pretty damn close. Since not all theists must have the typical "religion" trappings, and not all religions are theistic, this is probably the way to go.

Radcliffe Emerson

I like them. And I personally like the 'childish imagination' addition.

Stephen T-B

Am I mis-reading you, SF, or are we saying the same thing - but differently?

SecularFuture

Or maybe I could say "a theistic religionist who adheres to supernaturalism....."

Sound kind of dense though...
Oh well.

Thank you anyhow.

SecularFuture

Not really.

SecularFuture

5 Points against Religious Theism by Tony S.

The existence of a god can not be tested by science, seen by the naked eye, nor detected by electrical devices. Therefore, god must be a supernatural being if he/she/it is believed to be both omnipotent and omnipresent.

Definitions for the word ‘supernatural’:
- of or relating to existence outside the natural world
- attributed to a power that seems to violate or go beyond natural forces
- of or relating to a deity
- of or relating to the immediate exercise of divine power; the miraculous

Definitions for the word ‘natural’:
- present in or produced by nature
- of, relating to, or concerning nature
- conforming to the usual or ordinary course of nature
- not acquired; inherent

1) What theists interpret as being acts of divine intervention could be the acts of natural phenomenon. To know, without doubt or “religious faith”, if something is more than a natural phenomenon, you would need to understand the nature of all natural phenomenon. Only then will you have reason to rule out all natural explanations, and rule in a super-natural one.

2) Unlike history books, many religious scriptures include stories about supernatural worlds that can only be believed and not seen. This is why many freethinkers are able to have “reasoned faith”, a kind of faith that is supported by analytical reason, in history books and not in most religious scripture.

3) Anyone with a little spare time and creative writing ability could have written religious scripture. A god is not the only being capable of inspiring or writing books.

4) If there are still other possible explanations for what theists interpret as being of a divine origin or nature, there is still room for doubt and further investigation. And where there is room for further investigation, there is no absolute knowledge or absolute truth. Untested - personal - interpretations of so-called supernatural events could be nothing more than natural phenomenon.

5) Any philosophy that promotes the use of magical thinking over the use of critical thinking is a hindrance to scientific and intellectual accomplishment. Progress toward objective solutions can not be made through subjective thinking alone.

Stephen T-B

You are being very patient, SF. I'd have gone bananas by now, with all these people changing my stuff around. But since you seem to be coping very well, I've two suggestions for No 2:, hence:
"many religious scriptures include stories about supernatural phenomena." (which by definition means there is no way of testing whether they be genuine or not.).

The rationally-minded prefer histories in which claimed events do not violate reasoned analysis, and .are supported by corroborating evidence .
Best wishes
S.T-B

SecularFuture

Stephen T-B
Oh no – Many minds working together is far more powerful than one mind working by itself. We need to start threads like this, so that we can have our ideas and debating techniques tested and refined.

This is a good line! Could I please use it?

Stephen T-B

I think "conflict with," rather than "violate," might be better.

But use it, sure.