Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Kevin Dorner · 08-01-2002, 04:14 AM

Quote:

"Somehow it got in the wrong pile," Ventura's spokesman John Wodele said. "It would not have been approved."

<a href="http://www.startribune.com/stories/1384/3132463.html" target="_blank">Ventura office faces slip of the pen</a>

Oops!

Toto · 08-01-2002, 09:56 AM

The whole Christian Heritage Week is a national campaign that is so dishonest I would not put it past them to have forged Ventura's signature.

From another thread, Buffman remarked: �Perhaps the most disingenuous part of that whole Christian Week Proclamation is the fact that they used four Deists out of six people quoted to promote their Christian belief system. How sad...and how clever.�

Here's the proclamation:

Quote:

The Christian Heritage Week proclamation, which was signed Wednesday by Gov. Jesse Ventura's office, reads:

WHEREAS: The Preamble to the Constitution of the State of Minnesota states that, "We the people of the State of Minnesota, grateful to God for our [?is evil a typo for civil? a Freudian slip??] evil and religious liberty, and desiring [to] perpetuate its blessings and secure the same to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution"; and

WHEREAS: Benjamin Franklin, and the Constitutional Convention of 1787 stated, "It is impossible to build an empire without our Father's aid. I believe the sacred writings which say that "Except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it"; and

WHEREAS: George Washington enunciated, "Animated alone by the pure spirit of Christianity, and conducting ourselves as the faithful subjects of our free government, we may enjoy every temporal and spiritual felicity"; and

WHEREAS: Thomas Jefferson, author of the Declaration of Independence, wrote, "Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed the conviction that these liberties are the gift of God"; and

WHEREAS: James Madison, father of the U.S. Constitution, advocated, "The diffusion of the light of Christianity in our nation" in his Memorial and Remonstrance; and

WHEREAS: Patrick Henry quoted Proverbs 14:34 for our nation, "Righteousness alone can exalt a nation, but sin is a disgrace to any people"; and

WHEREAS: George Mason, in his Virginia Declaration of Rights, forerunner of our U.S. Bill of Rights, affirmed, "That it is the mutual duty of all to practice Christian forbearance, love and charity toward each other"; and

WHEREAS: These, and many other truly great men and women of America, giants in the structuring of American history, were Christian statesmen for caliber and integrity who did not hesitate to express their faith."

NOW THEREFORE, I, JESSE VENTURA, Governor of Minnesota, do hereby proclaim that the week of October 13 through October 19, 2002, shall be observed as:

CHRISTIAN HERITAGE WEEK

The gall it takes to claim that Madison advocated "the diffusion of the light of Christianity in our nation" in his Memorial and Remonstrance, a work better noted for the quote:

Quote:

During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity, in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution.

Although Madison did say, in opposition to a bill to fund Christian education:

Quote:

12. Because the policy of the Bill is adverse to the diffusion of the light of Christianity. The first wish of those who enjoy this precious gift ought to be that it may be imparted to the whole race of mankind. Compare the number of those who have as yet received it with the number still remaining under the dominion of false Religions; and how small is the former! Does the policy of the Bill tend to lessen the disproportion? No; it at once discourages those who are strangers to the light of revelation from coming into the Region of it; and countenances by example the nations who continue in darkness, in shutting out those who might convey it to them. Instead of Levelling as far as possible, every obstacle to the victorious progress of Truth, the Bill with an ignoble and unchristian timidity would circumscribe it with a wall of defence against the encroachments of error.

What Washington actually said: from <a href="http://www.ls.net/~newriver/va/catholicva.htm" target="_blank">The Catholic Church in Virginia</a>:

Quote:

General Washington himself, in appreciation of the conspicuous part taken by Catholics in the Revolutionary war, addressed them as follows, under date of March 12, 1790: "To the Roman Catholics of the United States of America: I hope ever to see America among the foremost nations in examples of justice and liberality. And I presume that your fellow citizens will not forget the patriotic part which you took in the accomplishment of their revolution and the establishment of your government, or the important assistance which they received from a nation in which the Roman Catholic faith is professed. May the members of your society in America, animated alone by the pure spirit of Christianity, and still conducting themselves as the faithful subjects of our free government, enjoy every temporal and spiritual felicity."

(Washington is noted for keeping his religious opinions to himself, and for never saying anything promoting Christianity or Jesus.)

What Franklin actually said was, "And if a sparrow can not fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without his aid? We have been assured, Sir, in the sacred writings, that "except the Lord build the House they labour in vain that build it." I firmly believe this;..."

This was part of Franklin's 29 June plea (motion) to have prayers said before every meeting by one or more members of the local clergy so the convention would get back on track after "The small progress we have made after 4 or five weeks close attendance & continual reasonings with each other...". Mr. Sherman seconded the motion. After discussions led by "Mr. Hamilton & several others," and several attempts at adjournment, the session was adjourned without a vote. No prayers were ever delivered in the Convention.

This was obviously an attempt to make peace at the Constitutional Convention, not an endorsement of Christianity.

[ August 01, 2002: Message edited by: Toto ]</p>

Toto · 08-01-2002, 10:23 AM

<a href="http://www.achw.org/" target="_blank">Christian Heritage Week homepage</a>

<a href="http://www.christianheritagemins.org/history.html" target="_blank">Christian Heritage Ministries</a>

Those quotes probably come from here:

<a href="http://www.amerisearch.net/about.asp" target="_blank">http://www.amerisearch.net/about.asp</a>

Proposal for Atheist Heritage Week from Atheists of Idaho:

<a href="http://www.idahoatheists.org/Issues/atheistheritage.htm" target="_blank">http://www.idahoatheists.org/Issues/atheistheritage.htm</a>

The Resistance · 08-01-2002, 02:11 PM

I saw it too. I already wrote a letter to the editor defending Jesse essentially saying that after all Jesse has done for us, we can overlook this little error.

I read of Governor Jesse Ventura accidently signing a proclamation for Christian Heritage Week. While it does violate separation of church and state, it is the first, only, and almost certainly last such mistake Jesse has made on this issue while in office. It is undeniably funny that this mistake was accidental.

Jesse needn't be embarrassed as accidents will happen. He is the only governor in America that has championed freedom of religion, one of our most sacred freedoms, in spite of the political damage it has done to him.

There isn't a non-Christian in Minnesota, or in the United States, that isn't aware of the Jesse's commitment to defending the rights of atheists and minority religions.

Someone as dedicated as Ventura needn't apologize for such a minor oversight. Rather non-Christians should be thanking Ventura for all he's done. Thanks, Jesse.

Christopher Aspelund

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08-01-2002, 10:23 AM	#3
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	<a href="http://www.achw.org/" target="_blank">Christian Heritage Week homepage</a> <a href="http://www.christianheritagemins.org/history.html" target="_blank">Christian Heritage Ministries</a> Those quotes probably come from here: <a href="http://www.amerisearch.net/about.asp" target="_blank">http://www.amerisearch.net/about.asp</a> Proposal for Atheist Heritage Week from Atheists of Idaho: <a href="http://www.idahoatheists.org/Issues/atheistheritage.htm" target="_blank">http://www.idahoatheists.org/Issues/atheistheritage.htm</a>

08-01-2002, 02:11 PM	#4
The Resistance Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Minnesota Posts: 571	I saw it too. I already wrote a letter to the editor defending Jesse essentially saying that after all Jesse has done for us, we can overlook this little error. I read of Governor Jesse Ventura accidently signing a proclamation for Christian Heritage Week. While it does violate separation of church and state, it is the first, only, and almost certainly last such mistake Jesse has made on this issue while in office. It is undeniably funny that this mistake was accidental. Jesse needn't be embarrassed as accidents will happen. He is the only governor in America that has championed freedom of religion, one of our most sacred freedoms, in spite of the political damage it has done to him. There isn't a non-Christian in Minnesota, or in the United States, that isn't aware of the Jesse's commitment to defending the rights of atheists and minority religions. Someone as dedicated as Ventura needn't apologize for such a minor oversight. Rather non-Christians should be thanking Ventura for all he's done. Thanks, Jesse. Christopher Aspelund

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