ftorresgamez

All this assuming that Adam could sin in the first place. Not one of you have even pondered on the issue: How could a PERFECT GOD create an IMPERFECT BEING?

If Adam was created by God, a perfect being, then Adam too, must have been perfect. Yet, he sinned (ate the forbiden fruit despite God's command). So, how could he sin if he was perfect? Or does God make imperfect creations? Is He an amateur all of a sudden?

The whole "free will" issue is silly. There is absolutely no mention of it in the Bible; rather, it is an a posteriori rationalization done in order to reconcile the problem of original sin and the perfection of creation - an unavoidable conundrum whenever one deals with such a poorly written book.

http://members.aol.com/ckbloomfld/be...html#issref123

CJD

Normally I would ignore the arrogant, but this is a bit much. Theoretically, if a perfect God created the world, he would create according to his perfect attributes. He is not bound by them, as they are not separate from him. Not creating according to a "set" standard of perfection is almost a non-question. In any case, this theoretical CreatorGod is not required to create a perfect being insofar as the act of creating an imperfect being does not violate his perfect attributes. Does it? Prove it.

Regards,

CJD

Jack the Bodiless

There is no indication that the God written about in Genesis is, or was ever intended to be, a "perfect God".

All that theological guff came later.

judge

I think you need to check all your assumptions.
Adam was not "disposed to good". It is just that temptation did not come "from within". he needed to be tempted by a third party.

Following the fall he was tempted "from within"

Soul Invictus

Can you clear that up for me? They knew they were sinning, however they didn't know they were doing wrong? I'm not sure how you define sin, but I the concept of being knowledgable of what is right and wrong is the crux of the issue anyway.

Regards,

Invictus

Secular Pinoy

Yet this is an unwarranted assertion. Why wasn't he disposed to good?

Amos

It would help to distinguish between "man" who was created in Gen.1 after the image of God and the ego awareness of man that was created in Gen 3. This second ego identity was called Adam and only in this awareness can evil be conceived to exist.

judge

Hi secular pinoy!

Well I suppose it could be that Adam was "disposed to do good". It may end up being a semantic issue.

In the context of the original post I don't think this is the best way to explain it.

Following the assertion in the first post scumble asks..."But if this is true, why would Adam suddenly decide to disobey the Lord?"....

The hidden assumption here seems to be that if Adam was "disposed to do good", he should not have disobeyed.

In this sense he was not "disposed to do good". In other words he was not"disposed to do good" in a way that moved him to resist the temptation to disobey. But this is obvious because he disobeyed. Which makes me wonder what the original kwestion was about....hmmm..and makes me wunder wot eye am still doing hear.
A least thats how I see it (presently)

Hope this helps.

scumble

Where do you get the idea that the serpent comes from outside the garden?

What I see as the main problem is the claim that Adam was somehow better beforehand. If he was so ready to eat the friut because Eve gave it to him, how does that make him closer to God? Isn't Adam just the same as anyone, he just happened to disobey the first command? And wasn't it inevitable? Why does on transgression change Adam? If he wasn't tempted "from within" before, how does knowledge of Good and Evil make men sin? Genesis doesn't suggest knowledge from the tree is any different from God's knowledge. Why does knowledge of Good and Evil make a man ashamed of being naked?

Ah. That's the trouble. Before you come to these things, you already have an assumption at the back of your head. Why should I need to ask him, anyway?

I only just noticed that yesterday, mike. It suggests immortality is completely out of the picture as far as man is concerned.

mike_decock

Yes, the message is that we were created as mortal, innocent/ignorant workers. The curse of Man is not that we we inherited a sinful and disobedient nature because of Adams action, the curse of Man is that we know the difference between good and evil and we have to choose between the two.

I think Christians have a lot of trouble with that notion. They keep trying to read "Original Sin", "Spiritual Death" and "Loss of Immortality" into the story and those elements simply are not supported by the text.

-Mike...