rainbow walking

Hi Terri,

[b]I'd like to suggest a step which I've found very effective in my own life, though:

whenever tempted to let the g** expletive pass our lips (or even g***** for alternative theists)
, try to replace it with the phrase:

"Mythological and Highly Improbable Being"

It takes a measure of doing, but that's often enough to stop you casually buying into the g** awareness of our cultures.

For one thing, you have to think about it first!

Imagine hitting your thumb with a hammer, and remembering to yell "Oh Mythological-and-Highly-Improbable-Being....ON CRUTCHES" [/QUOTE]

rw: Excellent suggestion...let's see how we can word this one...oh, I got it...

Stop taking the name of the lord....seriously!

BTW does anyone know its real name? Not only is it incomprehensible but it also has no proper credentials. Unlike you Terri, who have a valid drivers lisence, (you do have a valid drivers lisence...yes?)

Say, how's that new ride? Is it smooth as a babies butt and twice as phat?

rainbow walking

Helen, I can always count on you to identify those areas I would have over-looked. I think you may have hit on an idea worthy of more than just a one liner...perhaps an entire department devoted to over-dosing the addicted to their addiction. Splendid treatment if carefully applied. It would require someone with an extensive knowledge of all the brainwashing techniques to be skillfully over-applied...someone like, well, you Helen. I nominate you as the official department head of the Department of Theological Overdose Treatment Center. I'll be expecting a detailed report of your plans and vision for its implementation no later than monday morning.

rainbow walking

rw: Now that is sheer brilliance. Would you interested in a full time position on my staff?

rainbow walking

Hi Fox, the wording for this one that came to mind immediately was: Get Real.

rainbow walking

Hello RNG, I can't think of a better way to word this one than the way it's worded. Excellent idea!

HelenM

rw I appreciate the nomination very much - but of course you couldn't really have a theist in that position due to the conflict of interest hazard. I'll illustrate why.

Suppose I were to suggest increasing exposure. You couldn't know that I was suggesting it to push for over-exposure rather than resolving an under-exposure problem to achieve maximal numbers of conversions and rate of spiritual growth.

If I were to suggest decreasing exposure how would you know whether I was truly aiming for the optimal level of over-exposure rather than trying to resolve a burn-out problem due to too much exposure?

Do you see? You'd never know for sure that I was working for your side rather than - gasp! - the 'other'!

love
Helen

Jobar

This is no joke. I think that such a thing might just possibly be a powerful and important contribution we could make to humanity.

Let's not set anything in stone here- firstly, I want to quote the classic 12 steps from AA- from the third (1976) edition of Alcoholics Anonymous-

1) We admitted that we were powerless over alcohol- that our lives had become unmanageable.
2) Came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
3) Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
4) Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
5) Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
6) Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
7) Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.
8) Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
9) Made direct amends to such people whenever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
10) Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.
11) Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.
12) Having had a spiritual awakening as a result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

Yeah, I know- pretty damn revolting, isn't it? It is abundantly obvious that AA is simply a means of replacing one addiction with another.

Note here- as vile, pointless and self-destructive as I think theism is, I must state from having seen serious drunks that AA may be some improvement over alcoholism. But we can do better, I know!

Second note- there is a program called "Secular Sobriety" of which I know almost nothing. Do they use anything like steps, or have a statement or creed which can be written out concisely? If anyone knows of such, please put it here!

Jobar

We have vast obstacles to overcome, which AA does not face. Alcoholism is an obvious aberration of mind and body, scowled upon by most of society, painful to the alcoholic and all around him, and (ultimately) unconceilable. The strong chemical addiction, and the pleasant aspects of being drunk, are the only real attractions alcohol holds.

Theism, on the other hand, is strongly approved by most of society. (In fact, in a way it is a society.) Its evils are extremely subtle, and the postives- the aforesaid approval, the feeling of being 'saved', the fact that it obviates the need to make any deep and difficult appraisals of ethics and philosophy (because both of these are spoon fed to the believer), the instilling of the belief before the age of reason is reached- brainwashing is not by any means too strong a term.

Despite these huge problems, it can be done- as many- most- of us well know! But we can't just say 'stop doing this or that' because most people simply don't want to.

We must start out by pointing out that their religion is not solving their problems, and is in fact *causing* them problems. So I would say that must be the first step- somewhat mimicking AA, we say that we first must realize that our religion is harming and not helping- either internally, by providing self-respect and peace of mind; or externally, by improving the world around us, and aiding the advancement of human interests and humane causes in the world at large.

HelenM

I understand, Jobar.

Even Christians (some at least) do realize that people can have unhealthy attachments to or overdependence on leaders or belief systems and that these can be very harmful to the people.

Or at least, they recognize it when they see it elsewhere. I'm not always sure they understand how much of the same, could be present in their own group.

I have talked to one of my pastors about this, to some extent. I have seen it in an institution once assumed Christian but now thought by some to be a cult. I have seen how many adherents fiercely defend the leader no matter what and I've regretted that the leader hasn't worked harder to remind their followers that they are a fallible human being who might sometimes be wrong.

love
Helen

GunnerJ

Jobar- AA started as an offshoot of the Oxford Group Movement, a Protestant evangelist movement. Try replacing the words "alchohol" and "alcholic" with "sin" and "sinner" respectively, and you'll see AA's true origins.