FRDB Archives

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.


Go Back   FRDB Archives > Archives > IIDB ARCHIVE: 200X-2003, PD 2007 > IIDB Philosophical Forums (PRIOR TO JUN-2003)
Welcome, Peter Kirby.
You last visited: Today at 05:55 AM

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-19-2002, 12:57 PM   #1
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: United States
Posts: 1,657
Post Unreasonable Faith

Through the years I've done a lot of study of the early writings of the so-called "church fathers", both those later called heretics and those who prevailed. I've also read what remains of those early critics of the cult that are preserved in the polemics of their Christian opponents or were spared the torch of book-burnings ordered by Christian emperors.

In undertaking an examination, however brief or exhaustive, of any religion, it is perhaps the most difficult task to define what that religion is and is not in order to set the boundaries of the exploration. This task is daunting with the multivariate cultic practices that have been broadly and altogether loosely grouped under the title “Christianity.” The effort is made all the more difficult in that factionalism and differentiation are the very hallmarks of the history and present day circumstances of Christianity which, from its earliest beginnings, has been characterized by never-ending fragmentary strife among its adherents, forever accusing one another of apostasy, error, heresy and treason against “the true doctrine.”

The earliest critics of the Christian cult found themselves quite unable to discern among the cult’s adherents any universally agreed to theological principles and propositions, disputation regarding which we have substantive evidence within the writings of the earliest Christian leaders continuing down to this very day. Through many centuries of wrangling, plotting, conspiracy and violence against infidels and against its own adherents, certain dominant sects arrived at the body of literature, doctrine, dogma and praxis we have today, which, even though a small subset of the varieties of praxis manifested since the dawning of the common era, is still maddeningly diverse, with each faction making claims to orthodoxy as unimpressive as the counter-claims of their opponents.

For their own part, many Christians seem quite unaware of, certainly not very disturbed by the challenge factionalism presents to their claims of a universal and revealed religion. One often hears it argued by Christians that while there are disputes between various denominations and sects regarding minor points of doctrine, they are all agreed to the essentials. It is a claim that is stunning in its sheer audacity, though perhaps not as stunning as it is that anyone should believe such an indefensible claim in light of the plain reality.

A simple side by side comparison of the official creeds of the larger denominations in the United States alone reveals deep division over what must be seen, and indeed are seen as indispensable doctrines regarding salvation, predestination, eternal damnation, perseverance, depravity, intercession, sacrifice, support of the cult, charity, rites of membership, rituals of purification and grace, marriage, sexuality, priestly orders, and on and on. Christian apologists attempt to gloss over these differences at the same time Christian teachers instruct their disciples on the indispensability of these doctrinal points and urge them to avoid being seduced by the heretics and apostates of the other sects. In point of fact, Christians have only two commonalities: the first being the almost meaningless label “Christian”, and the second being that they tend to view as impostors a large percentage of those calling themselves Christians who are not of their immediate congregation, and indeed commonly have their suspicions about the validity of members of their own immediate group.

If one may say that any principle is universal throughout Christianity it would be the principle of separation that it inherited from its Judaic roots, but which it has taken to ridiculous extremes. Differences of opinion are seldom negotiated in Christianity because of its inherent belief that a definite revealed will of the supreme deity is accessible, either through the indirect revelation of its scriptures, or through direct revelation to the individual Christian. That this revelation takes so many various and often quite contradictory forms is never seen by the Christian as evidence that their concept of divine revelation is flawed or even absurd. Contradiction only indicates that at least one claimant to revelation is a false prophet, in error, deceived, or spiritually defective. How they choose between two equally unproven revelations is more or less a matter of individual Christian leaning in a religion that makes blind faith a spiritual virtue and reasoning a damnable and fleshly offense. In practice what one sees is constant bickering amongst Christian leaders and their followers, with each group claiming to walk the revealed path and attacking their rivals as apostates and servants of evil. Who follows whom is often a mere matter of group affinity and it seems seldom a matter for rational examination.

Another remarkable and persistent trait of the various Christian groups is that of paranoia. From its inception the cult and its offspring have found danger to be a powerful incentive for fraternal feeling and group cohesion. This is so much the case that even during times when as now, in which Christianity indisputably enjoys a favored and protected status, in fact a majoritarian status, its preachers and adherents go to great lengths to fantasize and invent dangers, cataclysms, apocalypses and conspiracies to drive their group to greater heights of sacrifice, devotion and commitment, with a simultaneous insistence that all doubt and withholding are rooted in the plots of evil human scoffers, the unseen influence of supernatural lurkers in the dark, or worse yet, in the individual member’s knowing rebellion against an almighty god. Innocent misunderstanding is seldom allowed for and reasoned disagreement is attacked as preferring flawed human intellect over supernaturally revealed divine will.

In the Christian religion any questioning of approved revelation is proof positive of spiritual weakness and moral turpitude requiring repentance and submission, alternately banishment and shunning, and, wherever allowed by legal code, even up to the imprisonment, torture and violent murder of those who resist. Its claims to be a religion of love and universal brotherhood not withstanding, Christianity has proven itself identical with other religions in its willingness to use majoritarian status and civil power to enforce fidelity and punish heterodoxy. In fact, given the large number of persons executed by civil and ecclesiastic authorities over the centuries for the crime of infidelity to the Christian faith, it seems beyond reasonable debate that an inhabitant of Europe throughout the past 16 centuries was much more likely to be dispossessed, imprisoned, exiled or executed on ecclesiastical accusations than for all other causes combined. One may say with no small irony that despite its claims to know the path to immortality Christianity has been the death of many and the preservation of none.

Among the many evidences of the falsehood of Christian claims, the inability of Christians to unite over doctrine and praxis, despite that each Christian is in some sense supposed to be possessed or inhabited by the spirit essence of their deity, is the one most glaring evidence that Christianity is just as divinely revealed as other religions, which is to say not at all. Christian factionalism seems incontrovertible proof that the Christian god is utterly powerless to control his/her creation, utterly unable to clearly communicate critical requirements on the basis of which grandiose reward and horrific punishment will be given, and yet proposes to roast those who fail to adhere to a message which this god can neither communicate nor empower his/her servants to maintain and explain clearly and consistently. I would think this situation would make more of an impression on Christians than it does. I would think above all that Christians would think it odd indeed that the creator of all things should be so helpless to affect those things it has created and so impotent to make him/herself understood. The notion is ridiculous.

There are many more ridiculous notions upon which Christianity is based. Celsus catalogued quite a few in the passages preserved by his opponents. In answer to each critique, then as now, Christians retreat behind phrases such as "Yes that's how it is, but that just proves the truth of our faith because this was all predicted long ago." Even if we accepted that Christian prophets predicted all this Christian "diversity", and le's recall those prophecies through the years have been turned to the support of numberless and mutually exclusive meanings, we are still left with a god that predict his own failure, but can't come up with a way to do it right the first time.

The only explanation I can come up with is that our species is so plagued by powerful self-doubt that it makes us desperate to believe that someone all-powerful is in charge, even though we aren't, and makes willing to accept even the silliest notions rather than accept the notion that the outcome is up to us, but only partly, and not really in anyone's control. It think it's a holdover from infancy that resists intellect at a level below rational thinking.

What do you philosophical types think?
Ron Garrett is offline  
Old 02-19-2002, 01:22 PM   #2
Honorary Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: West Coast
Posts: 5,714
Thumbs up

Amen!

--Don--
-DM- is offline  
Old 02-19-2002, 02:47 PM   #3
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: WI
Posts: 4,357
Thumbs up

*bump*

Everyone should read this.
hezekiah jones is offline  
Old 02-20-2002, 03:54 AM   #4
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: United States
Posts: 1,657
Post

But you will notice that nobody is reading it and the Christians are ignoring it altogether, as one would expect.
Ron Garrett is offline  
Old 02-20-2002, 04:05 AM   #5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: in the middle of things
Posts: 722
Post

Hey, I read it, and I concur. I'm just not a post slut like some (glances around for Archangel)

I even saved it to disk for potential plagiarization at a later date and because I like to say 'moral turpitude' any chance I get

~ Steve
Panta Pei is offline  
Old 02-20-2002, 05:59 AM   #6
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: United States
Posts: 1,657
Post

I know you guys agree, but preaching to the choir is boring and easy.

And by the way, I think sluts are a very good thing.
Ron Garrett is offline  
Old 02-20-2002, 06:22 AM   #7
Regular Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: omnipresent
Posts: 234
Cool

It's a great work. However, it's unlikely that you will get a Christian response. I'd like to see one but I don't think it will come.
sidewinder is offline  
Old 02-20-2002, 07:07 AM   #8
Regular Member
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Michigan
Posts: 191
Thumbs up

While you're patiently waiting for a Christian response, I'd like to share something from the Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod:

<a href="http://www.lcms.org/cic/denominationalism.htm" target="_blank">Why do so many denominations exist?</a>

Quote:
...sinful human beings can and do err. Hence, division occurs in visible Christendom.

We hold that there can be only one Truth, and that denominations exist because some Christians have departed from what is faithful to biblical doctrine.
The issues raised in your post are thought-provoking and insightful -- and include many of the reasons that I walked (ran!) away from Christianity, specifically the LCMS.
Skid is offline  
Old 02-20-2002, 08:31 AM   #9
Regular Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: State College, PA
Posts: 283
Post

Brilliant OP, Ron (may I call you Mr. Garrett?)
I'll try to get my xian wife and fundie sister-in-law to read this, but I don't hold out much hope.

BTW according to the <a href="http://www.oup-usa.org/isbn/0195079639.html" target="_blank">World Christian Encyclopedia</a> there are 33,800 different xian denominations, and according to <a href="http://gem-werc.org/mmrc/mmrc9702.htm" target="_blank">this website</a>, the number has grown from 23,000 in 1990 to 32,000 in 2000. An increase of 39% in just 10 years!
britinusa is offline  
Old 02-20-2002, 11:16 AM   #10
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: United States
Posts: 1,657
Post

Crazy isn't it? You see these little startup churches begin as five friends in a home Bible study with no professional pastor and no salaried positions beause all those mainstream trappings are of the flesh. Three years later they've all written each other off as sellouts and phonies. The one with the most charisma has a traditonal several hundred person congregation whose function is to make the pastor well off and feel Moses-like in absolute power. One has started another church. One has joined a cult. And the only one with a brain has become an atheist out of disappoiuntment that his four friends turned out to be as spiritual as rotted stumps. And there you have the history of the Jesus people.
Ron Garrett is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:43 PM.

Top

This custom BB emulates vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.