Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Darth Dane · 04-11-2003, 05:10 AM

If you were God, the one God, who would you allow into heaven?

A pious God-fearing? man, who haven't kept your commandments?

Or

An atheist that have kept your commandments?

Taking into consideration that these two commandments are equally high: "Love God with all you heart" and "Love your neighbor as you would love yourself"

The believer has "Love God..." as his highest command.
The atheist has "Love thy neighbor..." as his highest comand.

And they are equally high.

Given this, who would you admit into heaven?

DD - Love Spliff

diana · 04-11-2003, 06:43 AM

Interesting ideas, although you might find theists arguing that these commandments are "equally high." "Love God," IIRC, takes top billing.

But still an interesting question. I think it's better suited for GRD, though.

d

Volker.Doormann · 04-11-2003, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Darth Dane
If you were God, the one God, who would you allow into heaven?

DD - Love Spliff

"One went to the door of the Beloved and
knocked. A voice asked, 'Who is there?'
He answered, 'It is I.'

The voice said, 'There is no room for Me and Thee.'
The door was shut.

After a year of solitude and deprivation he returned and knocked.
A voice from within asked, 'Who is there?'
The man said, 'It is Thee.'
The door was opened for him."

Jelaluddin Rumi
(Professor of Theology on Islam, born September 30 1207 C.E)

Darth Dane · 04-11-2003, 07:07 AM

volker:

You believe this?

DD - Love Spliff

Volker.Doormann · 04-11-2003, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Darth Dane
volker:
You believe this?

Belief is of no worth. It is knowledge, what has a meaning. Rumi says with this, that one must be god to know god. No one who read in a book about woman can know woman. If one would know, he must realize that. There is no discussion board where spiritual knowledge is to be downloaded from.

"The more awake one is to the material world,
the more asleep to spirit.
When our soul is asleep to God,
other wakefulness closes the door of Divine grace."
(Rumi)

Volker

Eudaimonist · 04-11-2003, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Darth Dane
If you were God, the one God, who would you allow into heaven?

If I were God, I would seriously rethink this whole heaven/hell thing...

Darth Dane · 04-11-2003, 08:22 AM

Belief is of no worth. It is knowledge, what has a meaning.

Thats why I ask you, to me what you KNOW is a belief, until I know as you do.
I know there is a God, but alas I cannot prove it by other means than my words. So you must believe me or not. Until I know as you do, your knowledge is belief.

Rumi says with this, that one must be god to know god. No one who read in a book about woman can know woman. If one would know, he must realize that. There is no discussion board where spiritual knowledge is to be downloaded from.

Meister eckehart said something close to this (I'm sorry can't find the quote, but I am sure it is out there)

"I realised that the eye I was seeing God with, was the same eye that God saw me with."

Yes, if we want to be let in God, we must let God in us.

So, I ask you again. Do you believe this?

DD - Love Spliff

Darth Dane · 04-11-2003, 08:24 AM

If I were God, I would seriously rethink this whole heaven/hell thing...

Should our two humans wait until you have made up your mind?

What would you do?

DD - Love Spliff

mike_decock · 04-11-2003, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Darth Dane
If you were God, the one God, who would you allow into heaven?

A pious God-fearing? man, who haven't kept your commandments?

Or

An atheist that have kept your commandments?

Without hesitation, the Atheist.

A man who chooses to live a moral life for no other reason than believing it is good to do so is far more noble than one who does it out of fear of punishment or desire for reward.

Please don't take that to imply that I think all Christians are driven by fear/desire. There's good people from all walks of life.

-Mike...

Darth Dane · 04-11-2003, 08:40 AM

I have modified my initial post here:

If you were God, the one God, who would you allow into heaven?

This is the scenario:

You have issued two commands, that are equally high:

1a) Love God(you) with all your heart and all your soul

1b) Love thy neighbor, as you Love thyself

Two humans come up to you.

The first, who believes in God, have upheld 1a, but been more or less careless with the rest of the commandments, they have been broken, because everybody does it.

The second, who doesn't believe in God, have upheld 1b and the rest of the commandments, simply because it was common sense.

Given this scenario, who would you as God, allow into heaven?

The God believer, who upheld the first command, because God(you) said he should, but broke the rest?

Or

The atheist, who upheld all commandments, except to Love God, because he choose to, not because God(you) told him to?

mike_decock: What would you do with the other man? Re-incarnate him? Throw him in a hell-like place? What would you do with him?

DD - Love Spliff

04-11-2003, 05:10 AM	#1
Darth Dane Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Required Posts: 2,349	If you were God. If you were God, the one God, who would you allow into heaven? A pious God-fearing? man, who haven't kept your commandments? Or An atheist that have kept your commandments? Taking into consideration that these two commandments are equally high: "Love God with all you heart" and "Love your neighbor as you would love yourself" The believer has "Love God..." as his highest command. The atheist has "Love thy neighbor..." as his highest comand. And they are equally high. Given this, who would you admit into heaven? DD - Love Spliff

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04-11-2003, 06:43 AM	#2
diana Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Colorado Springs Posts: 6,471	Interesting ideas, although you might find theists arguing that these commandments are "equally high." "Love God," IIRC, takes top billing. But still an interesting question. I think it's better suited for GRD, though. d

04-11-2003, 07:07 AM	#4
Darth Dane Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Required Posts: 2,349	volker: You believe this? DD - Love Spliff

04-11-2003, 08:22 AM	#7
Darth Dane Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Required Posts: 2,349	Belief is of no worth. It is knowledge, what has a meaning. Thats why I ask you, to me what you KNOW is a belief, until I know as you do. I know there is a God, but alas I cannot prove it by other means than my words. So you must believe me or not. Until I know as you do, your knowledge is belief. Rumi says with this, that one must be god to know god. No one who read in a book about woman can know woman. If one would know, he must realize that. There is no discussion board where spiritual knowledge is to be downloaded from. Meister eckehart said something close to this (I'm sorry can't find the quote, but I am sure it is out there) "I realised that the eye I was seeing God with, was the same eye that God saw me with." Yes, if we want to be let in God, we must let God in us. So, I ask you again. Do you believe this? DD - Love Spliff

04-11-2003, 08:24 AM	#8
Darth Dane Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Required Posts: 2,349	If I were God, I would seriously rethink this whole heaven/hell thing... Should our two humans wait until you have made up your mind? What would you do? DD - Love Spliff

04-11-2003, 08:40 AM	#10
Darth Dane Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Required Posts: 2,349	I have modified my initial post here: If you were God, the one God, who would you allow into heaven? This is the scenario: You have issued two commands, that are equally high: 1a) Love God(you) with all your heart and all your soul 1b) Love thy neighbor, as you Love thyself Two humans come up to you. The first, who believes in God, have upheld 1a, but been more or less careless with the rest of the commandments, they have been broken, because everybody does it. The second, who doesn't believe in God, have upheld 1b and the rest of the commandments, simply because it was common sense. Given this scenario, who would you as God, allow into heaven? The God believer, who upheld the first command, because God(you) said he should, but broke the rest? Or The atheist, who upheld all commandments, except to Love God, because he choose to, not because God(you) told him to? mike_decock: What would you do with the other man? Re-incarnate him? Throw him in a hell-like place? What would you do with him? DD - Love Spliff

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