Freethought & Rationalism Archive

d'naturalist · 02-07-2002, 07:34 AM

I was reading an otherwise offensive article about The Prez at the National Prayer Breakfast, minding my own business, not hurting anyone, when all of a sudden I starts hallucinating. The article, in the middle of a bunch of quotes from Bush overselling the importance of faith, throws in this little ditty:

Quote:

"Respect for dignity of others can be found outside religion, just as intolerance is sometimes found within it."

I'm gonna have to take up drinking or something. Did the President actually say this?!?!

Hoffma · 02-07-2002, 08:11 AM

Sure, I believe he said it, but not that he meant it. It's undermined by the fact that this took place during a "National Prayer Breakfast", whatever that is. I'll believe it when the man's policy reflects it.

butswana · 02-07-2002, 08:28 AM

sometimes? try more often than not.

Darwin's Finch · 02-07-2002, 08:36 AM

Yep, it's true. I saw part of his speech at the prayer breakfast this morning on CNN. He also mentioned "good citizens who don't profess faith in any religion." I almost fell out of my chair.

manhattan · 02-07-2002, 08:58 AM

Here's the relevent passages, from the <a href="http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/02/20020207-1.html" target="_blank">transcript at the White House web site</a> (the good parts bolded).

Quote:

Every religion is welcomed in our country; all are practiced here. Many of our good citizens profess no religion at all. Our country has never had an official faith. Yet we have all been witnesses these past 21 weeks to the power of faith to see us through the hurt and loss that has come to our country.

Faith gives the assurance that our lives and our history have a moral design. As individuals, we know that suffering is temporary, and hope is eternal. As a nation, we know that the ruthless will not inherit the Earth. Faith teaches humility, and with it, tolerance. Once we have recognized God's image in ourselves, we must recognize it in every human being.

Respect for the dignity of others can be found outside of religion, just as intolerance is sometimes found within it. Yet for millions of Americans, the practice of tolerance is a command of faith. When our country was attacked, Americans did not respond with bigotry. People from other countries and cultures have been treated with respect. And this is one victory in the war against terror. (Applause.)

Hmmm. I'm going to pretend that it was the result of my angry emails after the 11th. Makes me feel better, even if it isn't true. And isn't that what faith is all about?

[ February 07, 2002: Message edited by: manhattan ]

Layman · 02-07-2002, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hoffma:
Sure, I believe he said it, but not that he meant it. It's undermined by the fact that this took place during a "National Prayer Breakfast", whatever that is. I'll believe it when the man's policy reflects it.

I gotta ask, just how would this statement be reflected in the President's policies? In your opinion that is.

PopeInTheWoods · 02-07-2002, 09:02 AM

That's Shrubya's style though, to pay lip service to his opponents, acting all cordial and such, while blithely pursuing his policies to screw them over. It works because the man just doesn't seem smart enough to be that devious. Bush inclusiveness means "You have the right to agree with me." I'll take his comments under slight advisement, but he needs to back up his tolerant words with appropriate actions.

Andy

PopeInTheWoods · 02-07-2002, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Layman:
I gotta ask, just how would this statement be reflected in the President's policies? In your opinion that is.

For starters, by not whacking away at state/church separation with his "faith-based" programs. Or maybe by using scientific rationales to decide scientific issues (e.g. stem-cell research). Or how about something simple like cracking down on his AG for his "voluntary" prayers at official Justice Department meetings?

Andy

cheetah · 02-07-2002, 09:10 AM

I actually take more offense to what he said than if he hadn't said it. it seems nice that he mentioned us at first, but then when I really read it, it seems like, "There are some normal people who don't get involved with religion. But then the rest of us know how valuable faith can be!" almost like he attempted to acknowledge us, but then actually acknowledged the superior helpfulness of having faith!

manhattan · 02-07-2002, 09:12 AM

Small steps, Cheetah, small steps. A year ago, we weren't even "citizens" and he seemed honestly astonished that someone without religious faith could have a moral framework.

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02-07-2002, 08:11 AM	#2
Hoffma Regular Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Minnesota Posts: 222	Sure, I believe he said it, but not that he meant it. It's undermined by the fact that this took place during a "National Prayer Breakfast", whatever that is. I'll believe it when the man's policy reflects it.

02-07-2002, 08:28 AM	#3
butswana Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 1,804	sometimes? try more often than not.

02-07-2002, 08:36 AM	#4
Darwin's Finch Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Gardnerville, NV Posts: 666	Yep, it's true. I saw part of his speech at the prayer breakfast this morning on CNN. He also mentioned "good citizens who don't profess faith in any religion." I almost fell out of my chair.

02-07-2002, 09:02 AM	#7
PopeInTheWoods Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Rochester NY USA Posts: 4,318	That's Shrubya's style though, to pay lip service to his opponents, acting all cordial and such, while blithely pursuing his policies to screw them over. It works because the man just doesn't seem smart enough to be that devious. Bush inclusiveness means "You have the right to agree with me." I'll take his comments under slight advisement, but he needs to back up his tolerant words with appropriate actions. Andy

02-07-2002, 09:10 AM	#9
cheetah Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 2,118	I actually take more offense to what he said than if he hadn't said it. it seems nice that he mentioned us at first, but then when I really read it, it seems like, "There are some normal people who don't get involved with religion. But then the rest of us know how valuable faith can be!" almost like he attempted to acknowledge us, but then actually acknowledged the superior helpfulness of having faith!

02-07-2002, 09:12 AM	#10
manhattan Regular Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: New York, NY, USA Posts: 400	Small steps, Cheetah, small steps. A year ago, we weren't even "citizens" and he seemed honestly astonished that someone without religious faith could have a moral framework.

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