Freethought & Rationalism Archive

GaryP · 07-19-2002, 01:41 AM

From American Atheists;

Josh Karpf, 9/28/01)

**

ALABAMA ATHEISTS TO PROTEST MONDAY AT CHENEY
APPEARANCE IN MONTGOMERY!
Darby: Demonstrate To Defend State-Church Separation, Newdow Ruling

American Atheists and Alabama Atheist groups will hold a peaceful
protest this Monday, July 22, 2002 during an appearance by Vice
President Dick Cheney in Montgomery. Cheney is slated to appear at
the Alabama Shakespeare Festival.

Larry Darby, State Director for American Atheists, is calling upon
regional Atheists, Freethinkers and First Amendment supporters to
gather beginning at 4:00 PM at the Blount Cultural Park in Montgomery.
The protest will focus on the federal faith-based initiative, and show
solidarity with Michael Newdow and the recent U.S. Ninth Circuit
Court decision finding that the words "under God" in the Pledge of
Allegiance render it unconstitutional. (See:
<a href="http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/pledge2.htm)." target="_blank">http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/pledge2.htm).</a>

"It's now time for Congress to act to abandon the current divisive
motto and restore our genuine national motto of 'E Pluribus Unum' as
well, and strike 'In God We Trust' from currency," said Mr. Darby.

For more information, contact Larry at 334-269-1885 or 334-270-8223,
or via e-mail through ldarby@atheists.org. Alternate contact is Judy
Heenan, Coordinator for the Capitol Atheists who may be reached at
227-8723.

WHAT: American Atheists - Alabama Atheists demo to defend Ninth
Circuit decision, protest federal faith-based initiative at VP Cheney
appearance.

WHEN: This Monday, July 22, 2002 beginning at 4 PM

WHERE: Gather at the entrance to Blount Cultural Park in Montgomery.
Look for the Atheist banners!

MORE INFO: <a href="http://atheists.home.att.net/info.htm" target="_blank">http://atheists.home.att.net/info.htm</a> or contact Larry
Darby at 334-269-1885 or 334-270-8223, or via e-mail through
ldarby@atheists.org. Alternate contact is Judy Heenan, Coordinator
for the Capitol Atheists who may be reached at 227-8723. Also,
<a href="http://www.atheists.org/al" target="_blank">http://www.atheists.org/al</a>

AspenMama · 07-19-2002, 06:37 AM

Thanks for the update! I am going to move this to a more appropriate forum.

Toto · 07-19-2002, 07:54 AM

Does anyone question whether it is good politics to picket Cheney at a Shakepeare festival? Or to picket Cheney in support of the Ninth Circuit's decision, which he has no connection with?

I can think of a lot of reasons to picket Cheney, but church-state relations would not be at the top of the list.

Buffman · 07-19-2002, 09:20 AM

I agree with Toto. This does not seem like a wise action. Protest his not revealing all his Halliburton papers. Don't give him a public forum in which to divert attention away from his personal integrity problems.

Krieger · 07-19-2002, 09:41 AM

Good luck Atheists in Alabama.

You might consider working with progressive/liberal groups in Alabama, they might be interested in protesting Cheney as well.

Liquidrage · 07-19-2002, 12:27 PM

Figures..
I spend 4 years in Montgomery and nothing happens. Then I move and one year later something happens.

The Shakespeare Festival is kinda like a permanent park/fair grounds/theater complex. I used to walk my dog there. The place is nothing sacred.

And to be honest. Fuck waiting for good time. Politicians are using religion to lead the people. Besides just the dollar bill and the pledge, I'm sick of seeing religious values stand in the way of progress (stem cells, cloning, etc). Any time any group of atheists want to get together and protest I'll support them.

Oresta · 07-20-2002, 06:35 AM

Quote:

Buffman: I agree with Toto. This does not seem like a wise action. Protest his not revealing all his Halliburton papers. Don't give him a public forum in which to divert attention away from his personal integrity problems.

Many of the folks who think "Under God" in the PoA is just dandy share our outrage about corporation scandal . It's an issue that resonates across the political spectrum. We can build a coalition around it, and it is an issue relevant to Cheney.
However, I can't see how the 9th's decision will garner any support from this demonstration.

Fiach · 07-22-2002, 06:27 PM

The demonstration while morally correct, is strategically poor planning. America is the only western nation apart from Ireland and Portugal where Atheists are a small minority. However, in America, atheists seem to be the only minority that is politically correct to hate. I read that 50% of Americans view Atheists negatively.

So by making yourselves visible in a demonstration only means that the 50% Atheist haters in the US will have to come to his defence and perhaps be willing to overlook the corporate scandals. Political candidates there have made poll advanced by denouncing Atheists (George H. W. Bush in 1988). This is in marked contrast to the UK, where an open Atheist Neil Kinnock almost became PM.

America has become so stridently Christian, worse since 9-11, that Atheists were blamed by Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson rather than the Muslims who did it. Even the Deists who founded America (Paine, Adams, Jefferson, Franklin, Ethan Allan) could not get a major party nomination let alone win an election there.

The US is hypothetically secular, it is a de facto Christian Theocracy. And it has become more religious since mandatory prayer was removed from schools. Doesn't that tell you something? Here in the UK where state subsidised schools have taught religion, the population is about 50% unbelievers, and the other 50% religious but divided among liberal, nominal, and conservative. Americans by contrast are closer to 48% fundamentalistic with 5% Atheists.

So why don't you put mandatory prayer into schools, have everyone sing "God Save the Queen, have an official Church of America like we have the Church of Scotland, and the Church of England. Maybe after a few decades you will number as many as the Christians, like we have here.

It may be that our rote recitation of barmy prayers every day, made us see the idiocy of religion. Bible readings made me see the irrationality of the Bible, the gross immortality and God ordered atrocities, and the real silliness of the Jesus myth. We Brits know its all bollocks. You in America don't know enough about the Bible and the silliness of prayer. Once you do, faith will erode.

Fiach

Krieger · 07-22-2002, 11:34 PM

I think it is better to be just hated, rather then hated and ignored.

As long as protests aren't violent they can only be good for a cause I think.

07-19-2002, 01:41 AM	#1
GaryP Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Lancaster, OH Posts: 1,792	Atheists protest Cheney in AL From American Atheists; Josh Karpf, 9/28/01) ** ALABAMA ATHEISTS TO PROTEST MONDAY AT CHENEY APPEARANCE IN MONTGOMERY! Darby: Demonstrate To Defend State-Church Separation, Newdow Ruling American Atheists and Alabama Atheist groups will hold a peaceful protest this Monday, July 22, 2002 during an appearance by Vice President Dick Cheney in Montgomery. Cheney is slated to appear at the Alabama Shakespeare Festival. Larry Darby, State Director for American Atheists, is calling upon regional Atheists, Freethinkers and First Amendment supporters to gather beginning at 4:00 PM at the Blount Cultural Park in Montgomery. The protest will focus on the federal faith-based initiative, and show solidarity with Michael Newdow and the recent U.S. Ninth Circuit Court decision finding that the words "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance render it unconstitutional. (See: <a href="http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/pledge2.htm)." target="_blank">http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/pledge2.htm).</a> "It's now time for Congress to act to abandon the current divisive motto and restore our genuine national motto of 'E Pluribus Unum' as well, and strike 'In God We Trust' from currency," said Mr. Darby. For more information, contact Larry at 334-269-1885 or 334-270-8223, or via e-mail through ldarby@atheists.org. Alternate contact is Judy Heenan, Coordinator for the Capitol Atheists who may be reached at 227-8723. WHAT: American Atheists - Alabama Atheists demo to defend Ninth Circuit decision, protest federal faith-based initiative at VP Cheney appearance. WHEN: This Monday, July 22, 2002 beginning at 4 PM WHERE: Gather at the entrance to Blount Cultural Park in Montgomery. Look for the Atheist banners! MORE INFO: <a href="http://atheists.home.att.net/info.htm" target="_blank">http://atheists.home.att.net/info.htm</a> or contact Larry Darby at 334-269-1885 or 334-270-8223, or via e-mail through ldarby@atheists.org. Alternate contact is Judy Heenan, Coordinator for the Capitol Atheists who may be reached at 227-8723. Also, <a href="http://www.atheists.org/al" target="_blank">http://www.atheists.org/al</a>

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07-19-2002, 06:37 AM	#2
AspenMama Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Colorado Posts: 3,311	Thanks for the update! I am going to move this to a more appropriate forum.

07-19-2002, 07:54 AM	#3
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	Does anyone question whether it is good politics to picket Cheney at a Shakepeare festival? Or to picket Cheney in support of the Ninth Circuit's decision, which he has no connection with? I can think of a lot of reasons to picket Cheney, but church-state relations would not be at the top of the list.

07-19-2002, 09:20 AM	#4
Buffman Beloved Deceased Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: central Florida Posts: 3,546	I agree with Toto. This does not seem like a wise action. Protest his not revealing all his Halliburton papers. Don't give him a public forum in which to divert attention away from his personal integrity problems.

07-19-2002, 09:41 AM	#5
Krieger Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: ... Posts: 2,191	Good luck Atheists in Alabama. You might consider working with progressive/liberal groups in Alabama, they might be interested in protesting Cheney as well.

07-19-2002, 12:27 PM	#6
Liquidrage Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Tallahassee Posts: 1,301	Figures.. I spend 4 years in Montgomery and nothing happens. Then I move and one year later something happens. The Shakespeare Festival is kinda like a permanent park/fair grounds/theater complex. I used to walk my dog there. The place is nothing sacred. And to be honest. Fuck waiting for good time. Politicians are using religion to lead the people. Besides just the dollar bill and the pledge, I'm sick of seeing religious values stand in the way of progress (stem cells, cloning, etc). Any time any group of atheists want to get together and protest I'll support them.

07-22-2002, 06:27 PM	#8
Fiach Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Scotland, UK Posts: 602	The demonstration while morally correct, is strategically poor planning. America is the only western nation apart from Ireland and Portugal where Atheists are a small minority. However, in America, atheists seem to be the only minority that is politically correct to hate. I read that 50% of Americans view Atheists negatively. So by making yourselves visible in a demonstration only means that the 50% Atheist haters in the US will have to come to his defence and perhaps be willing to overlook the corporate scandals. Political candidates there have made poll advanced by denouncing Atheists (George H. W. Bush in 1988). This is in marked contrast to the UK, where an open Atheist Neil Kinnock almost became PM. America has become so stridently Christian, worse since 9-11, that Atheists were blamed by Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson rather than the Muslims who did it. Even the Deists who founded America (Paine, Adams, Jefferson, Franklin, Ethan Allan) could not get a major party nomination let alone win an election there. The US is hypothetically secular, it is a de facto Christian Theocracy. And it has become more religious since mandatory prayer was removed from schools. Doesn't that tell you something? Here in the UK where state subsidised schools have taught religion, the population is about 50% unbelievers, and the other 50% religious but divided among liberal, nominal, and conservative. Americans by contrast are closer to 48% fundamentalistic with 5% Atheists. So why don't you put mandatory prayer into schools, have everyone sing "God Save the Queen, have an official Church of America like we have the Church of Scotland, and the Church of England. Maybe after a few decades you will number as many as the Christians, like we have here. It may be that our rote recitation of barmy prayers every day, made us see the idiocy of religion. Bible readings made me see the irrationality of the Bible, the gross immortality and God ordered atrocities, and the real silliness of the Jesus myth. We Brits know its all bollocks. You in America don't know enough about the Bible and the silliness of prayer. Once you do, faith will erode. Fiach

07-22-2002, 11:34 PM	#9
Krieger Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: ... Posts: 2,191	I think it is better to be just hated, rather then hated and ignored. As long as protests aren't violent they can only be good for a cause I think.

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