Shadownought

If God really did undo the horrors of the Old Testament, wouldn't they no longer be in the book? If God erased those events from the time line, then they wouldn't have been chronicled in the book, because they didn't happen!

Selsaral

LOL, well yes you're right of course, but just imagine all the ways someone could explain this away. 'God exists outside of time', or 'He didn't erase it, he 'undid' it' (whatever that means), or 'he only undid their pain and suffering, not the events surrounding them', or my personal favorite 'God didit'. I mean if you believe in grumpy old man patriarchal gods from ancient middle-eastern cultures, it's easy for you to explain this any way you want. You're arguing that christianity doesn't make any sense, but that hasn't stopped so many people from believing in it.

Biff the unclean

At least someone has come up with an explaination of why we can't find a trace the events described in the Old or the New Testaments. They tell the alternate history, before God changed it and when Mr Spock had a beard

winstonjen

Perhaps many people still believe in it because of mind-control and brainwashing techniques that the Church uses. Christian parents probably do this too.

And if god could undo the events, well, wouldn't it be even easier to stop the events from occuring in the first place?

I stand by my belief - if god does not exist, there's nothing to worry about. If god exists as described in the bible, he's not worth worshipping.

winstonjen

Arrogancy:

They are either lying or not aware of it. However, there are those who die before they have sinned. Stillborn babies, babies dead at childbirth or shortly after, etc. etc. And don't say that god 'didn't really make them alive', because the bible does say that god put us together in the womb.

spurly

Keith,

Just so you will know, if you don't already, not all Christians believe that sin is "inherited". Not all Christians believe that one is a sinner the minute he/she is born.

Many Christian believe that each person becomes a sinner on their own when they choose to do something that is in direct contradiction to the character and nature of God. When they do that, then they are under the sentence that all sinners are under because they have chosen to rebel against their Maker.

Thus, until one comes to an understanding of who God is and what he expects from us, and then goes willfully against that, they are not a sinner.

Kevin

Ganymede

I recently had the following conversation, which touches on god's justice (or lack thereof).

Xtian: Hitler was an atheist you know, and he was probably the anti-christ!

Me: Actually it's well documented that Hitler was a Catholic, but it's interesting that you bring him up. Why do you think he was the anti-christ?

Xtian: He was pure evil! Only someone evil would gas all those people just because they were Jews!

Me: Thats true, but did it ever occour to you that if traditional Christian doctrin is to be belived, every single one of those Jews that he killed went straight to hell, where they would suffer for all eternity?

Xtian: !!

Me: How is it that Christians consider Hitler evil, but god the personification of justice and mercy? Hitler kept people in hell on earth for maybe 5 years or so, god will keep them in hell forever.

Xtian: Um... Well... God gave us free choice and um... you see... God is good and all the bad stuff is down to Satan.... and well... etc, etc.

Is God just? Not from where I'm standing.

Biff the unclean

One thing I really like about debating with Christians is that no two of them define Christianity as the same thing. The rules of the game keep changing with each player. There are some Christians who are just basically nice people and decide for themselves that Christianity has to be nice.

'New born infants damned to an eternity of torment in Hell (no gnashing of teeth, because they don't have teeth) ??!! That isn't nice. Forget about original sin, it doesn't make any sense, it's mean and stupid.'

If only all Christians felt that way...sigh

winstonjen

I like the debate between Christians of different sects and even of the same sect, because it shows that some of them are capable of free thought and don't just let the Church do all the thinking for them.

Philosoft

Is it possible for a person never to sin?
So this means there are almost certainly isolated, Christ-ignorant, groups of people who cannot sin, by definition, because they never come to an understanding of "who God is and what he expects from us"?