conkermaniac

Like most people here, I have read the Bible, and I totally do not understand Revelation. Now I do not want to hear any responses from Christians, since I already know well what they are going to say. How do atheists and agnostics interpret the passage: "and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth"? Does that mean that only 144,000 people can fit in heaven? Or does that mean only 144,000 people at the time of Jesus' coming will be redeemed? If it's the former, then I don't even see why Christians believe in the Bible. If it's the latter, then Christians should hope that Jesus doesn't come in their lifetime.

Magus55

The 144,000 are the Jews (12,000 from each of the 12 tribes) that are to witness to the Earth during the Tribulation - they are protected by God.

Spaz

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it's the Jehovah's Witnesses that think that only 144,000 will go to heaven. I might be wrong though, can't remember where I heard it.

conkermaniac

Well, at least you didn't make the same comment that I've heard from many Christians, so I commend you for that.

I thought the actual scripture mentioned something about only these people going to heaven and the rest staying on a "new Earth".

YHWHtruth

<<<<The 144,000 are the Jews (12,000 from each of the 12 tribes) that are to witness to the Earth during the Tribulation - they are protected by God.>>>>>

Rev. 7:4-8: “I heard the number of those who were sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand, sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel: . . . Judah . . . Reuben . . . Gad . . . Asher . . . Naphtali . . . Manasseh . . . Simeon . . . Levi . . . Issachar . . . Zebulun . . . Joseph . . . Benjamin.” (These cannot be the tribes of natural Israel because there never was a tribe of Joseph, the tribes of Ephraim and Dan are not included in the list here, and the Levites were set aside for service in connection with the temple but were not reckoned as one of the 12 tribes. See Numbers 1:4-16.)

Rom. 2:28,_29: “He is not a Jew who is one on the outside, nor is circumcision that which is on the outside upon the flesh. But he is a Jew who is one on the inside, and his circumcision is that of the heart by spirit, and not by a written code.”

Gal. 3:26-29: “You are all, in fact, sons of God through your faith in Christ Jesus. ._._. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor freeman, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one person in union with Christ Jesus. Moreover, if you belong to Christ, you are really Abraham’s seed, heirs with reference to a promise.”

Max

River

The 144,000 are the Sincere Muslim Saints from the 10 Lost Tribes of Israel as well as elsewhere who are silently waiting for the Messiah, Jesus as well as Imam Mahdi ( the symbolic Elijah). These are the Muslims that will readily recognize Jesus Christ when he descends upon a Minaret , in Damascus Syria. Jesus Christ will do battle with the One Eyed Tyrant, the AntiChrist . The Dajjal or AntiChrist will come from Afghanistan and in his final manifestaion raise an army of 70,000 soldiers from Ishfahan, Iran. the Messiah will slay the Dajjal in Gate of the Lodd , which is currently an Israeli airport roughly 10 miles from Tel Aviv.

......the 144,000 are not some Jews who will ultimately convert to Christianity. This is a serious misreading of the Bible , that had provoked Evangelical fundies to mess around with Prophecy.

Hugo Holbling

It might be worth looking into this book.

On a separate note, it must be nice to know exactly what all Christians will say on a given subject. You could earn some money at election times with a skill like that.

[Link changed to II link. Don't mind me.]

Magus55

Wrong, the Jews are not Muslim Saints - Revelation doesn't have diddly squat to do with Muslims.

And the 144,000 are already Messianic Jews ( Christian) - thats why they are chosen. They worship the Lamb of God ( Jesus).


Rev 7:10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

Rev 7:11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and [about] the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,

Rev 7:12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, [be] unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.

Rev 7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

The Tribulation is God's judgements on the world - the only way to come out of the Tribulation and be in white robes, is to worship Jesus Christ as your Lord. This isn't something "fundies" made up - it says it quite clearly in Revelation. The 144,000 Jews, worship Jesus Christ.

Spaz

ooooohhhh, now i get it magus, the 144,000 are jews because you're a messianic jew, now it makes sense.

Magus55

What are you talking about?