Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Anachronix · 05-10-2003, 08:13 AM

"To believe the events put forward in the Bible (both the Old and New Testaments) requires a pre-existing belief in God, therefore reading the Bible cannot change one's beliefs"

Discuss...

lpetrich · 05-10-2003, 08:37 AM

Which God?

AdamWho · 05-10-2003, 11:35 AM

Anachronix

I would agree with your statement. You won't get faith from a bible; the Bible is one of the best deconversion devices I have ever seen.

I decided to do some read in Leviticus last night and the only thing it inspired me to do was laugh and feel sorry for the patheticness of the writing.

Anachronix · 05-10-2003, 04:50 PM

Some things I should clarify (it was late and I was tired):

1) By 'God' I mean the God put forward in the Old and New Testaments as the supposed creator and ruler of all existence.

2) When I say 'change one's beliefs' I mean change one from a non-believer to a believer.

NB: The statement made in my original post may or may not be my own personal viewpoint. It is merely a statement contrived to create a discussion.

Darth Dane · 05-12-2003, 02:51 AM

If I have a beleif in God, and Then I read teh bible, then of course it won't make a difference, however reading the bible will give you a way to explain more thoroughly what God is and how God acts. This is a big club, a lot of people have gievn up their own way of explaining Reality and joined the club of Catholics, because that IS teh way to understand God, and if you are not in this club you are out and more importantly you are of teh devils spawn and whatnot.

Some say that because someone said that the book/bible is from God, then we believe in God. "I mean my parents said God wrote it, my priest said it. If everyone says it is true, then it must be true, and so I believe in God"

Imagine children, who sees their parents as teh source of knowledge and so on, they will believe in what the parents say they believe in, teh child probably reasons that it's parenst know better somehow.

As we raise our children, it is so easy to mindfuck them and manipulate them into almost whatever.

DD - Love Spliff

SecularFuture · 05-14-2003, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Anachronix
"To believe the events put forward in the Bible (both the Old and New Testaments) requires a pre-existing belief in God, therefore reading the Bible cannot change one's beliefs"

Discuss...

Exactly. You can't blindly believe that a NOVEL came from a magical source unless you have a pre-existint belief in that magical source. Without that blind belief, the NOVEL would look like any other NOVEL.

Jack the Bodiless · 05-15-2003, 08:40 AM

Ah, but other religions have clearly mythical elements, indicating that they're clearly just stories.

Whereas the Bible has talking snakes, and... um... a guy living in a whale for a while, and... ah... a guy who turned into a dweeb after a bad haircut, and... um...

BioBeing · 05-15-2003, 09:33 AM

I have heard many times from Christians that if you study the bible you will find God. Of course, if you then tell then you have read it, and you did not find God, they then tell you that you are reading it wrong... SO i agree with the OP. If you believe, you will find what you need in it. If you do not believe, the Bible in and of itself will not convert you.

Wayne Delia · 05-15-2003, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Anachronix
"To believe the events put forward in the Bible (both the Old and New Testaments) requires a pre-existing belief in God, therefore reading the Bible cannot change one's beliefs"

Discuss...

Trivially true. Genesis 1:1 starts out "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." That's the fork in the road. If God is not accepted axiomatically (i.e. the reader does not believe in God), then the rest of the Bible plays out as historical fiction at best. Otherwise, if God is accepted axiomatically, then the rest of the Bible somewhat falls into place, with the accompanying apologetics and tap-dancing around the errors and contradictions.

Since there's no "verse 0" in Genesis 1 explaining God, the fork in the road is inevitable - one either believes in God or not.

WMD

BadBadBad · 05-15-2003, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Anachronix
"To believe the events put forward in the Bible (both the Old and New Testaments) requires a pre-existing belief in God, therefore reading the Bible cannot change one's beliefs"

Discuss...

It says that in the Bible. Where is the verse?

05-10-2003, 08:13 AM	#1
Anachronix Regular Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Adelaide, Australia Posts: 112	To believe the Bible you must already believe in God "To believe the events put forward in the Bible (both the Old and New Testaments) requires a pre-existing belief in God, therefore reading the Bible cannot change one's beliefs" Discuss...

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05-10-2003, 08:37 AM	#2
lpetrich Contributor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Lebanon, OR, USA Posts: 16,829	Which God?

05-10-2003, 11:35 AM	#3
AdamWho Contributor Join Date: May 2001 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 13,389	Anachronix I would agree with your statement. You won't get faith from a bible; the Bible is one of the best deconversion devices I have ever seen. I decided to do some read in Leviticus last night and the only thing it inspired me to do was laugh and feel sorry for the patheticness of the writing.

05-10-2003, 04:50 PM	#4
Anachronix Regular Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Adelaide, Australia Posts: 112	Some things I should clarify (it was late and I was tired): 1) By 'God' I mean the God put forward in the Old and New Testaments as the supposed creator and ruler of all existence. 2) When I say 'change one's beliefs' I mean change one from a non-believer to a believer. NB: The statement made in my original post may or may not be my own personal viewpoint. It is merely a statement contrived to create a discussion.

05-12-2003, 02:51 AM	#5
Darth Dane Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Required Posts: 2,349	If I have a beleif in God, and Then I read teh bible, then of course it won't make a difference, however reading the bible will give you a way to explain more thoroughly what God is and how God acts. This is a big club, a lot of people have gievn up their own way of explaining Reality and joined the club of Catholics, because that IS teh way to understand God, and if you are not in this club you are out and more importantly you are of teh devils spawn and whatnot. Some say that because someone said that the book/bible is from God, then we believe in God. "I mean my parents said God wrote it, my priest said it. If everyone says it is true, then it must be true, and so I believe in God" Imagine children, who sees their parents as teh source of knowledge and so on, they will believe in what the parents say they believe in, teh child probably reasons that it's parenst know better somehow. As we raise our children, it is so easy to mindfuck them and manipulate them into almost whatever. DD - Love Spliff

05-15-2003, 08:40 AM	#7
Jack the Bodiless Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: UK Posts: 5,815	Ah, but other religions have clearly mythical elements, indicating that they're clearly just stories. Whereas the Bible has talking snakes, and... um... a guy living in a whale for a while, and... ah... a guy who turned into a dweeb after a bad haircut, and... um...

05-15-2003, 09:33 AM	#8
BioBeing Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 6,004	I have heard many times from Christians that if you study the bible you will find God. Of course, if you then tell then you have read it, and you did not find God, they then tell you that you are reading it wrong... SO i agree with the OP. If you believe, you will find what you need in it. If you do not believe, the Bible in and of itself will not convert you.

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