Freethought & Rationalism Archive

lpetrich · 03-26-2003, 08:07 PM

A thread over at E/C got sidetracked into a discussion of Papal infallibility. From this article,

Quote:

Papal Infallibility was defined by the First Vatican Council of 1870 as the dogma that the Pope, when he speaks on matters of faith and morals ex cathedra (that is, officially), does not have the possibility of error.

Vatican Council, Sess. IV, Const. de Ecclesi� Christi, c. iv, holds:

We teach and define that it is a dogma Divinely revealed that the Roman pontiff when he speaks ex cathedra, that is when in discharge of the office of pastor and doctor of all Christians, by virtue of his supreme Apostolic authority, he defines a doctrine regarding faith or morals to be held by the universal Church, by the Divine assistance promised to him in Blessed Peter, is possessed of that infallibility with which the Divine Redeemer willed that his Church should be endowed in defining doctrine regarding faith or morals, and that therefore such definitions of the Roman pontiff are of themselves and not from the consent of the Church irreformable.

However, there is some wiggle room for deciding whether the Pope is making a truly infallible statement, or whether the Pope is only stating his personal opinion.

Which suggests that the Pope is infallible whenever one likes what he says, and not otherwise.

Ice · 03-26-2003, 09:08 PM

It seems to me that it says the Pope is infallible, except when the Pope nullifies his previous ex cathedra pronouncement (contradictory, but it seems that way).

Quote:

therefore such definitions of the Roman pontiff are of themselves and not from the consent of the Church irreformable

Since the Pope is the supreme authority and is not challengeable in terms of ex cathedra pronouncements, replace "Church" with "Pope".

sullster · 03-27-2003, 03:39 PM

If the pope is infallible, then lets get him doing weather forecasting. We could really use an accurate and believable forecast, especially for summer weekends.

If the pope says it will be sunny and warm, then darn it would be and you could make your plans. If he said it will rain, then, finally you can be sure and make other plans.

Life would be a lot better if the pope could use that infalliblity for something useful.

Biff the unclean · 03-27-2003, 03:59 PM

At least it gives some sort of consistency. With the Prods it seems like each one makes up his own religion as he goes along. When you argue with a Catholic you can know their stance.

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03-27-2003, 03:39 PM	#3
sullster Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: North of Boston Posts: 1,392	If the pope is infallible, then lets get him doing weather forecasting. We could really use an accurate and believable forecast, especially for summer weekends. If the pope says it will be sunny and warm, then darn it would be and you could make your plans. If he said it will rain, then, finally you can be sure and make other plans. Life would be a lot better if the pope could use that infalliblity for something useful.

03-27-2003, 03:59 PM	#4
Biff the unclean Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: an inaccessible island fortress Posts: 10,638	At least it gives some sort of consistency. With the Prods it seems like each one makes up his own religion as he goes along. When you argue with a Catholic you can know their stance.

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