Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Ray K · 04-21-2002, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by God Head:
<strong>
What about Islam? Many major scientific and mathematical advancements were made by Islamic scholars who's religion actively encourages the pursuit of scientific knowledge?
</strong>

ROFL. You obviously haven't read much history, have you?

It was the Arabs that PRESERVED the works of Ancient Greece, and it was the Christians that were BURNING them.

Why exactly do you think the works from Ancient Greece had to be translated from Arabic?

Here's a rough sequence of events:

1. Philosophy and science are born in the Golden Age of Greece
2. Macedonians (Alexander) invade, and are so impressed with Greek culture that they adopt it as their own
3. Romans invade, and are so impressed with Greek culture that they adopt it as their own
4. Christianity infects the Roman empire, and Greek "pagans" are driven from the empire. Books are burned, temples are destroyed, philosophers and scientists are put to death.
5. Arabs offer sanctuary and educational facilities to the beleaguered Greek scholars
6. The Arabs begin a major effort to translate Greek works into Arabic (by way of Syriac). Since many Greek concepts are unknown in Arabic, many Greek words are added to their language.
7. Arab science flourishes and their empire expands into Europe, while Christian Europe goes through its "Dark Ages"
8. Europe recovers some Arab books from a Crusade conquest and, for once, decides not to burn them. This is probably partly because of guys like Fibonacci, a Italian mathematician who had studied in Arab colleges.
9. The Church translates these books into Latin and universities are established to teach Aristotelian science.
10. The Renaissance begins and the rest is history

Non-praying Mantis · 04-21-2002, 05:56 PM

(hillbilly accent)

Hey Maw, you got any more troll food in the house!

(/hillbilly accent)

DNFTT

NPM

God Head · 04-22-2002, 04:53 AM

Thanks for the responses, especially those who welcomed me. No, you havent scared me off, i just couldn't reply sooner. The project im doing is about Religion on the Net.
And let me clear something up when i said "Im first and foremost a God beliver" i meant in as far as my beliefs go, not as in I define myself as a God believer before all else.

John Hancock · 04-22-2002, 06:39 AM

God Head;
I've not been a member of this board for very long consequently this posting may not reflex the majority opinion here:
Wolf says:
Yes, being absolutely truthful, I personally would love to see a ban on religion, but rationally, I know, that is not going to happen.
__________________________________________________
It's not that we are so anxious to ban religion as we've grown impatient for The Age of Reason (as in Thomas Paine author) to come about and hence the natural demise of superstition.

Martin Buber

SmashingIdols · 04-22-2002, 08:35 AM

Hey, I won't be shy about it - here it is:

I have an agenda! That's why I do it, and I freely admit it! My agenda is to destroy belief in God on the entire planet. I want to live in an atheistic world. This is my dream.

I am certain this is the only world that will have a chance of surviving, growing, nurturing freedom, reaching to the stars, answering the questions that our existence begs to be answered, creating equitable society, and allowing humankind to achieve the full potential of intelligent life!

In a nutshell - is there really anything else worth talking about?

Radcliffe Emerson · 04-22-2002, 09:10 AM

I was going to reply, but this reply already pretty much sums up what I was going to say:

Quote:

Originally posted by Liedts:
<strong>There is variety of reason:
-While I have no problem with individuals believing in an higher being, I do have a problem with organized religion, because it was and is actively involved in most things evil on this planet.
-The other reason is that religion is by definition conservative and stands in the way of progress. In fact christianity has probably caused a set-back of about 500 years in scientific development. This is serious because many diseases could conceivably be cured, if this delay was not there. Also look to the third world countries and see what the stance of the church against birth control is causing there in the form of the pread of aids, and the uncontrolled population boom, with children being born in abyssimal poverty.
-Or look at the middle east were three sister religions are slashing it out.
-Or look at the sexual abuse scandals plaging the catholic church, and look at the incredible cover-up.
-Religion is the greatest lie of all times and totally irrational, and by the way, it is difficult to understand how after 2000 years of no reply , people are still praying and believing. This is worrying and means that religious people have a dangerous ability to close of at least part of their mind. This is a medical condition, and should be treated instead of encouraged.</strong>

scumble · 04-22-2002, 12:38 PM

I don't revel in my non-belief. I may be slightly unusual here, since I have never been brought up in any religion. I never had to break away.
My parents just aimed to bring me up as a human I suppose, to question things, investigate, take in various viewpoints. I reckon that religion keeps going mainly because people are brought up in a tradition which excludes a lot of other ideas.
My Christian grandparents wanted me to be brought up in a tradition, and have my parents refrain from mentioning they didn't believe in any of it so I wouldn't be "confused". As it happened, my parents took a stand and made sure I was able to learn about various points of view. I've never been seduced by religion because my parents always talked about the other points of view with me.
That's a fairly brief account though. If non-believers do seem to "revel", as others have noted, it's only because we enjoy talking about many things, often because we are surprised by those who hold ridiculous beliefs.

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04-21-2002, 05:56 PM	#42
Non-praying Mantis Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Roanoke, VA, USA Posts: 2,646	(hillbilly accent) Hey Maw, you got any more troll food in the house! (/hillbilly accent) DNFTT NPM

04-22-2002, 04:53 AM	#43
God Head Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Planet Earth Posts: 5	Thanks for the responses, especially those who welcomed me. No, you havent scared me off, i just couldn't reply sooner. The project im doing is about Religion on the Net. And let me clear something up when i said "Im first and foremost a God beliver" i meant in as far as my beliefs go, not as in I define myself as a God believer before all else.

04-22-2002, 06:39 AM	#44
John Hancock Banned Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mars Posts: 2,231	God Head; I've not been a member of this board for very long consequently this posting may not reflex the majority opinion here: Wolf says: Yes, being absolutely truthful, I personally would love to see a ban on religion, but rationally, I know, that is not going to happen. __________________________________________________ It's not that we are so anxious to ban religion as we've grown impatient for The Age of Reason (as in Thomas Paine author) to come about and hence the natural demise of superstition. Martin Buber

04-22-2002, 08:35 AM	#45
SmashingIdols Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: USA Posts: 153	Hey, I won't be shy about it - here it is: I have an agenda! That's why I do it, and I freely admit it! My agenda is to destroy belief in God on the entire planet. I want to live in an atheistic world. This is my dream. I am certain this is the only world that will have a chance of surviving, growing, nurturing freedom, reaching to the stars, answering the questions that our existence begs to be answered, creating equitable society, and allowing humankind to achieve the full potential of intelligent life! In a nutshell - is there really anything else worth talking about?

04-22-2002, 12:38 PM	#47
scumble Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: UK Posts: 279	I don't revel in my non-belief. I may be slightly unusual here, since I have never been brought up in any religion. I never had to break away. My parents just aimed to bring me up as a human I suppose, to question things, investigate, take in various viewpoints. I reckon that religion keeps going mainly because people are brought up in a tradition which excludes a lot of other ideas. My Christian grandparents wanted me to be brought up in a tradition, and have my parents refrain from mentioning they didn't believe in any of it so I wouldn't be "confused". As it happened, my parents took a stand and made sure I was able to learn about various points of view. I've never been seduced by religion because my parents always talked about the other points of view with me. That's a fairly brief account though. If non-believers do seem to "revel", as others have noted, it's only because we enjoy talking about many things, often because we are surprised by those who hold ridiculous beliefs.

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