Freethought & Rationalism Archive

my dog earl · 04-02-2003, 04:54 PM

In some bibles it's "thou shalt not kill", others its murder. Ask a fundy and they say its the same thing. Sorry if this has been done to death already.

theIPU · 04-02-2003, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by my dog earl
In some bibles it's "thou shalt not kill", others its murder. Ask a fundy and they say its the same thing. Sorry if this has been done to death already.

The Bible says 'Thou Shalt Not Kill'...
"The Bible says "Thou shalt not kill", yet many Christians serve in the military. What hypocrites!"

The Hebrew word is 'ratsach'. Although this can mean 'kill', it's one of the words less frequently used to mean 'kill' in the Bible. It can, however, be translated as 'murder'. Most modern translations of the Bible express the commandment as "Thou shalt not murder".

http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/arguments.html

Spaz · 04-02-2003, 05:26 PM

Thou shalt not kill unless you think I say so

I dunno, I always saw it as kill

Beer God · 04-02-2003, 05:37 PM

The Sixth Commandment does not read 'Thou shalt not kill', the correct translation from the Hebrew or the Greek is: 'Thou shalt not murder'.

Mecha_Dude · 04-02-2003, 06:44 PM

it's only been changed to murder so they could weasel their way out of the crusades, the spanish inquisition, etc...

Magus55 · 04-02-2003, 07:06 PM

The commandment in Hebrew is Thou shalt not murder. Modern translations broadened it to thou shalt not kill. Murder is the correct term for the original manuscript.

winstonjen · 04-02-2003, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55
The commandment in Hebrew is Thou shalt not murder. Modern translations broadened it to thou shalt not kill. Murder is the correct term for the original manuscript.

*Disclaimer - feel free to reinterpret this text so that it appears consistent with the rest of the bible.

Amie · 04-02-2003, 07:37 PM

I agree with Magus on this, at least thats my interpretation...

Grad Student Humanist · 04-02-2003, 08:19 PM

I think it's correctly stated as "Thou shalt not murder," since even a cursory reading of the Old Testament proves that good ol' Yahweh had no problem with killing, as long as it was done in his name.

What a guy! :banghead:

christ-on-a-stick · 04-02-2003, 08:46 PM

I've heard many Xians define murder as "unjustified killing".

So, was the slaughter of Amelkite infants, toddlers and children (plus pregnant women) "justified"?

They would have to say yes, because God ordered it.

If that is the ultimate definition of "justified", then there is no "objective" morality, merely the whims of a temperamental God who oft changes his mind.

By the same token, if Allah is the One True God and Islam is the right religion, if Allah commanded the WTC attacks then the fiery and bloody deaths of thousands there would be "justified".

Scary.... no wonder the world is going crazy. As long as there are people who believe that invisible deities can and *have* righteously ordered bloodshed, people will continue to kill their slaughter their fellow man emboldened by the blessed assurance that they are fulfilling Divine Command.

04-02-2003, 04:54 PM	#1
my dog earl Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Canada Posts: 149	is it murder or kill? In some bibles it's "thou shalt not kill", others its murder. Ask a fundy and they say its the same thing. Sorry if this has been done to death already.

04-02-2003, 05:37 PM	#4
Beer God Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: USA Posts: 67	Re: is it murder or kill? The Sixth Commandment does not read 'Thou shalt not kill', the correct translation from the Hebrew or the Greek is: 'Thou shalt not murder'.

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04-02-2003, 05:26 PM	#3
Spaz Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: 6th Circle of Hell Posts: 1,093	Thou shalt not kill unless you think I say so I dunno, I always saw it as kill

04-02-2003, 06:44 PM	#5
Mecha_Dude Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Everywhere... I'm Watching you... Posts: 1,019	it's only been changed to murder so they could weasel their way out of the crusades, the spanish inquisition, etc...

04-02-2003, 07:06 PM	#6
Magus55 Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: USA Posts: 7,204	The commandment in Hebrew is Thou shalt not murder. Modern translations broadened it to thou shalt not kill. Murder is the correct term for the original manuscript.

04-02-2003, 07:37 PM	#8
Amie Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: New York Posts: 1,626	I agree with Magus on this, at least thats my interpretation...

04-02-2003, 08:19 PM	#9
Grad Student Humanist Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Melrose, MA Posts: 961	I think it's correctly stated as "Thou shalt not murder," since even a cursory reading of the Old Testament proves that good ol' Yahweh had no problem with killing, as long as it was done in his name. What a guy! :banghead:

04-02-2003, 08:46 PM	#10
christ-on-a-stick Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Durango, Colorado Posts: 7,116	I've heard many Xians define murder as "unjustified killing". So, was the slaughter of Amelkite infants, toddlers and children (plus pregnant women) "justified"? They would have to say yes, because God ordered it. If that is the ultimate definition of "justified", then there is no "objective" morality, merely the whims of a temperamental God who oft changes his mind. By the same token, if Allah is the One True God and Islam is the right religion, if Allah commanded the WTC attacks then the fiery and bloody deaths of thousands there would be "justified". Scary.... no wonder the world is going crazy. As long as there are people who believe that invisible deities can and have righteously ordered bloodshed, people will continue to kill their slaughter their fellow man emboldened by the blessed assurance that they are fulfilling Divine Command.

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