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Old 04-30-2003, 05:43 PM   #1
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Default Human Evolution Equilibrium?

Are homo sapiens in a sort of equilibrium as far as evolution is concerned? What I mean is, sometime in the distant future, will the human species evolve into another species? From my very limited understanding of the details of evolution, I understand that life evolved by natural selection, i.e. the mutations that weren't able to reproduce successfully didn't make it, the ones that did, did. But with medical technology and altruism, those born with severe defects can still live long lives, and thus the "weaker" ones don't die off immediately. Any thoughts?

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Old 04-30-2003, 06:39 PM   #2
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For a start, its not just staying alive that's important, but breeding. I might have more to say here a little later.
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Old 04-30-2003, 06:41 PM   #3
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This can get rather indepth, but basically Natural selection has taken a back seat to civilization and technology. Natural selection is about adaptation, and currently we can adapt ourself quicker than Natural Selection can, so it has taken a back seat.
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Old 05-01-2003, 12:02 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by Arikay
This can get rather indepth, but basically Natural selection has taken a back seat to civilization and technology. Natural selection is about adaptation, and currently we can adapt ourself quicker than Natural Selection can, so it has taken a back seat.
Are you suggesting that the vagaries of natural selection no longer play a role in our development, or merely that our adaptability through technology makes us far more versatile than what natural selection can account for? Despite our technological advances, we are still influenced/affected by our environment in a multitude of ways.
Quote:
What I mean is, sometime in the distant future, will the human species evolve into another species?
It would probably be more appropriate to discuss the divergence of human populations into distinct species. Your question suggests that as a species, we will shed our present human cocoons for a new and shiny human-like form. This will not happen wholesale; some segments of the population will exhibit characteristics that begin to distinguish it from the norm. After a significantly large period of time, the accumulation of differences may be such that a mating between the two will unfruitful, and the two populations will be distinct.
A gross oversimplification, I know, but, well....
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Old 05-01-2003, 12:57 AM   #5
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Just that since our technology and minds can help us adapt to our environment quickly. that Natural selection is happening, just on a slower proccess than it used to, because we can do some of the adaptations ourself.

As I mentioned this can get rather complicated, the complicated part is exactly how natural selection is working on us now. Since its a much more complicated issue than, wether an animal with more fur survives better in cold weather, so the animal gets more fur over the years, etc.

Quote:
Originally posted by Godot
Are you suggesting that the vagaries of natural selection no longer play a role in our development, or merely that our adaptability through technology makes us far more versatile than what natural selection can account for? Despite our technological advances, we are still influenced/affected by our environment in a multitude of ways.
It would probably be more appropriate to discuss the divergence of human populations into distinct species. Your question suggests that as a species, we will shed our present human cocoons for a new and shiny human-like form. This will not happen wholesale; some segments of the population will exhibit characteristics that begin to distinguish it from the norm. After a significantly large period of time, the accumulation of differences may be such that a mating between the two will unfruitful, and the two populations will be distinct.
A gross oversimplification, I know, but, well....
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Old 05-01-2003, 05:14 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by Arikay
Just that since our technology and minds can help us adapt to our environment quickly. that Natural selection is happening, just on a slower proccess than it used to, because we can do some of the adaptations ourself.

As I mentioned this can get rather complicated, the complicated part is exactly how natural selection is working on us now. Since its a much more complicated issue than, wether an animal with more fur survives better in cold weather, so the animal gets more fur over the years, etc.
It's an interesting question, and I don't disagree with your response here. However, I think its more the fact that biological evolution (which is acted on by natural selection) is so bloody sloooww in long-generation organisms like humans, whereas our cultural evolution (if I may be permitted that term) is so quick - intragenerational in some cases. The pace of the different forms of evolution is so vastly different, that whereas selective pressures from environmental factors are probably still operating, the effects of cultural and social pressures swamp the effects of natural factors in most cases.
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Old 05-01-2003, 09:29 AM   #7
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Human populations have a rather long generation time, and so human evolution is quite slow to begin with.

There is what I see as a common error in the idea that because of technology, humans are no longer subbject to natural selection. That is, that in the human "built" environment we have no selection pressures. In fact, the built enviornment has selection pressures as strong as the veldt or tundra. I suggest that you consider the highway fatalities as pressure to stay alert, and to posses quick reflexes. The prisons are selection pressure aginst anti-social behavior (however "normal" is defined locally- it still means "acting like the people around you"). There is also the hidden notion that there is a dicotomy between "human" and "natural."

We may spend less time running from lions these days, but don't forget to watch out for that rogue SUV.
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Old 05-01-2003, 10:42 AM   #8
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Quote:
By Godot:
It would probably be more appropriate to discuss the divergence of human populations into distinct species. Your question suggests that as a species, we will shed our present human cocoons for a new and shiny human-like form. This will not happen wholesale; some segments of the population will exhibit characteristics that begin to distinguish it from the norm. After a significantly large period of time, the accumulation of differences may be such that a mating between the two will unfruitful, and the two populations will be distinct.
The problem is we don't HAVE any population groups sufficiently isolated for this to occur, though we have had such enough to develop races in the past, we now mix and mingle so much that that is unlikely to occur.
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Old 05-01-2003, 02:32 PM   #9
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Obviously only the strict segregationists are going to be able to speciate then, in a few million years we will have speciated descendants of ultra-orthodox Jews, the Amish and white supremacists, I look forward to the day. Us miscegenated types better watch out for Homo novus klu kluxius.
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Old 05-02-2003, 02:19 PM   #10
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Do humans evolve? Yes, but not genetically. Even the worst genes are kept in the gene pool, so evolution kinda doesn't apply on humans. The human evolution happens at the memetic level.

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