pz

Please look around you. This is not christianforums. I really care nothing for the christianforums rules, except that they seem to be amusing instances of a lot of very stupid ideas.

Similarly, I don't give a damn about the bible. For exactly the same reason.

I was asking you for a rational explanation of your opinions. If you wish to fall back on the rather pathetic excuse that you are wedded to ancient dogma and can make no explanations without thumping a dead book, that's your choice.

Badfish

Opinions can be good natured or bad natured, opinions can be flaming, opinions can be nice, opinions can be against the rules, opinions might not be against the rules, opinions, might be positive, opinions might be negative.

Opinions in itself has nothing to with asking the nature of one's opinion.

If you are serious, I will try to better define opinions and how they can be a violation of rules.

I think you are misunderstanding.

Badfish

No I'm not discussing my faith here.

And thats my point, this is not Christian forums, yet everyone comes here to complain about actions taken at CF.

Since a lot of the people involved in this thread are Christians, I will see which ones actually come forward to tell you that your statement about being wedded to a dogma is offensive.

I don't particularly find it offensive, I hear it at CF all the time, but I am curious if the Christians involved in this thread will defend their book or denounce it along with you.

pz

You seem to have failed to notice that that was the very point wildernesse was making, with which you disagreed: holding opinions isn't the problem, it's how they are expressed. Well, here that's true, but it's apparently not so on christianforums, where only certain opinions are allowed to be expressed.

I'm not sure whether I'd call that intolerance or just intellectual cowardice, but either way, it ain't pretty.

pz

Why? Since you apparently lack [willingness] to defend or denounce or even discuss your faith, how meaningful is it if other christians similarly find it unworthy of comment?

wildernesse

The reason many people come here to gripe is because here there is something that CF lacks--freedom of expression. CF is not a transparent organization that allows dissent. Which would be fine if it weren't a *discussion* board.

I'm not offended by pz's comments. That's what he thinks. I disagree with him, but as long as he's not in my house rounding up my "dead books" and insisting that I give no attention to "ancient dogma" I think that he may think whatever he likes. Anyway, if the Word of God needs defending by little ole me, I have some serious problems with its greatness.

Many Christians are, in fact, wedded to dogma that they rarely think about or study to any degree. That's the very thing that stifles discussion and growth and leads to ostracizing people who question.

--tibac

Badfish

What do my testicals have to do with anything? Why is it, everytime I speak of god, somebody mentions my testicals?

They're not bad testicals, it's just that they cannot be compared to God or used to defend the position of Christianity.

Anyway, you should see that this isn't the thread to be defending one's faith, and besides you have already made your statement against Christianity, so debating and bringing such things into this thread would be off topic and be of no productivity.

Badfish

I think ostracising is an overstatement.

Actually the same could be said about people who tear down the bible and do their darndest to discredit it, then still contend the faith!

There really needs to be no questions, it is the truth or it isn't.

Badfish

But see this forum and thread are open to the public and some people may be hurt or offended.

That's why I said earlier to just don't mind me.

I was merely defending CF's policies as I find them fair considering the mission statement and purpose of the board.

I see others believe they have been treated unfairly and brought it here, and there is no law against that. It's like a gathering place, where the outcasts can gather. I understand that.

I just wanted to say that CF isn't that bad, and if you follow the rules, it can be a good learning place, it's just that it is limited by it's very definition.

So be it. Gripe on.

wildernesse

How the heck do you know it is true if you don't question? Is it true? That's the most basic question of all!! After that comes: If it's true, what does that mean? And: Is there any new knowledge that changes my previous understanding?

I will not accept "_____" is true, just because. Even if it holds itself up to be the word of God.

And ostracizing is not an overstatement about the reaction I would get if I published my questions in the average Sunday School. Or even anonymously on CF! I'm afraid to speak to my family about my beliefs and what I really think because I know it would HURT them that I disagree with some of their beliefs/interpretations. I feel that questions or different ideas about traditional Christianity are unwelcome in most of the Bible Classes I have been a part of. I am not welcome to explore my faith fully within a large part of the Christian community.

Thankfully, I have found a Sunday school class that allows discussion and exploration--although I have a difficult time joining the discussion because of FEAR of rejection and judgement. Should a Christian have to feel this way within her own community? Think about that the next time you feel that Christianity's adherence to "truth" is liberating and loving.

--tibac