Buffman

Is this Christian Fundamentalism supporting Muslim Fundamentalism?


<a href="http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/opinion/orl-edpfried06080602aug06.story?coll=orl%2Dopinion%2Dh eadlines" target="_blank">http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/opinion/orl-edpfried06080602aug06.story?coll=orl%2Dopinion%2Dh eadlines</a>

lpetrich

Or maybe it's something like

Hosni Mubarak is an S.O.B., but he's our S.O.B.

A familiar policy from the Cold War, and in character with the Administration's approach to Saudi Arabia.

Buffman

Christian fundamentalist hypocrisy coupled with liberal cowardice?

At this rate, pretty soon every nation will be a "rogue" one. Is it any wonder that Israel, and the Palestinians, could care less what America says. We haven't been able to capture or confirm the death of Osama or Omar. We haven't captured the Anthrax terrorists(s). We can't protect the the current regime in Afghanistan from fraticidal assassinations. We can't stop the killing in Kashmir...or the slaughter of Christians in Pakistan. But we can threaten Saddam with a war that Bush's daddy claimed was won once before. Why?

Could it be that we would pressure Saddam's replacement to pump more oil, at lower prices, in order to weaken Opec's control of our foreign policy decisions...and to pay back the $9-11 billion dollars in outstanding debts to Russia? (Haven't you noticed how muted Russia has been about our new attack plans that are announced almost every day?) Why? (Will China claim that if we can oust the regime in Iraq simply because we don't like or trust it, will they claim the same about the one in Taiwan?)

We don't even know whom to support should Saddam be kicked out. Do the Kurds get the independence they seek? That probably wouldn't thrill either Turkey or Iran. Do we support the southern Iraqi Shi'ite who favor joining with Iran and who probably seek venegence on the Sunnis who slaughtered them when they attempted to overthrow Saddam after we "liberated" the "Democratic" State of Kuwait? Will Syria and Jordan support or remain neutral if we try to go it alone against Iraq? Will Saudi Arabia be happy if Iran increases its power and presence in the Gulf? Are we afraid that Israel will nuke Iraq if Iraq fires any more missiles at them? Does anyone sincerely think that the Saudi Throne will remain in power if America attacks another Islamic country simply because we are fearful that they might do something against us before they do it to Israel?

Does anyone know what our foreign policy really is other than a War on Terrorism/Evil?

[ August 06, 2002: Message edited by: Buffman ]</p>

HeatherD

We Americans haven't forgotten, only the officials that took control of our government have. There was no clear public mandate for Bush to do anything, seeing as he really didn't win the office. It's only 9/11 that gave him the impetus to do what he has done.

While I support efforts to fight terrorism, I know that Bush has gone too far, he's used this war as an excuse to grab as much power and control as he can.

It won't be forever, luckily there hasn't been a military coup. Worst case, he might get four more years and then it'll be over. Hopefully by then America will come to it's senses and elect someone better.

( Although I'm not holding my breath. I think the grand experiment that our founding fathers created is on a long slow slide to failure. Too many people, many who ironically call themselves patriots, don't actually believe in the principles our founding fathers used to create this country. )

edited to fix that horrendous URL

[ August 06, 2002: Message edited by: Heather Donahue ]</p>

gilly54

I often wonder if this country shouldn't retrench until our Congress develops SOME sort of foreign policy that helps the US. Stop giving those billions to Israel and Egypt. We sure could use that money at home. The Israelis can defend themselves and the land that they took from the original owners,the Palestinians, because their God told them it was theirs. Instead of poking our nose into other countries internal affairs, I think we should just be involved in the trade, economic aspect and how it benefits the US. What do we get from Israel except grief? or Egypt?

Buffman

Heather D.

A wonderful, and unfortunately, accurate assessment of the current state of affairs. I read that same paragraph, felt extremely sad...and went on my rant above.

About 20 years ago, I had already lived in the Far East and Europe. I was proud to be an American. I knew that America represented liberty, freedom of individual conscience, opportunity, and we were working on bringing equality to every citizen. The world seemed like a better place because Americans were sworn to defend our Constitution and all the wonderful, ethical, 100% human, principles it engendered...as so many had already died and split their blood around the world to uphold.

During the Vietnam War period, I didn't even get all that upset when two college kids spit on my uniform as I walked through the commercial airport in Hawaii. I was proud that I was able and willing to sacrifice my life so they could protest without fear of being placed against a wall and shot for having committed a minor offense against a representation of their government. I was deeply saddened when I saw our flag being burned, but I would be outraged if a constitutional amendment were passed making it a punishable crime. For me, freedom of speech will always be more important than a piece of colored cloth.

Then I retired and discovered that there was a group of zealously religious people that sought to impose their supernatural visions on everyone else of what it meant to be an American and a patriot. I started tracking them closely. I watched and attempted to do what I could to counter the spread of their deceitful propaganda. I was told that I was being an alarmist. Well, the rest you know.

Thanks for seeing so clearly through the fog of supernatural smoke and mirrors. I still have confidence that the American people will wake-up from this religious narcotic that they have been fed and re-establish the nation that should be helping to lead the world into a brighter, healthier, more educated future rather than hiding deeper in the cave of fear and superstition. Maybe then Americans will once again be able to walk the byways of the world as proudly as I once did.

capsaicin67

Buffman writes:I still have confidence that the American people will wake-up from this religious narcotic that they have been fed and re-establish the nation that should be helping to lead the world into a brighter, healthier, more educated future rather than hiding deeper in the cave of fear and superstition.

Mmmmmmm, but I fear we may have to build a very large and/or very loud alarm clock! The working class folks I am around daily have nearly no ideas nor opinions regarding what this country's "script" is all about in any higher sense, and they will pretty much tell you that. They know about as much about the Constitution as they do the Tibetan Book of the Dead. What little they do regurgitate is the propaganda of the pop cultural moment, and it will take quite the alarm clock to be heard above the bible thumping!

Buffman

capsaicin67

Yup! A very loud clock, indeed. I would have thought that 9/11 was a pretty loud alarm bell concerning fundamentalist religious craziness. However, the Christian fundamentalist propaganda network quickly deflected any insightful analysis away from themselves and onto Islam by changing the label from "religious fundamentalist terrorists" to "evil terrorists."

Have you been following the latest "flap" about the leaked, secret, Rand Corporation briefing pointing to Saudi Arabian supported schools (world wide) as the teaching platforms of this more virulent form of Muslim dogma and thus the breeding ground for these religious terrorists?

Naturally our administration and the hypocritical Saudi Government reps are rushing around denying it, but all one has to recall are the TV interviews of the students in those very mosque schools right after America attacked the Al Qa'ida and Taliban. The students in those mosque schools located in Pakistan, Somalia, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, etc., were more than ready to take up arms for Osama bin Laden to fight the western infidels and kill every Zionist Israeli. (I have little doubt that these Allah warriors would asked each Israeli if they were a Zionist before blowing themselves up. Riiiiigghhht!)...Here is the Saudi, controlled press, denial.

<a href="http://www.worldpress.org/europe/0102alsharq.htm" target="_blank">http://www.worldpress.org/europe/0102alsharq.htm</a>

And who is supplying the funds for these mosque schools and the clerics teaching in them? How is Muslim teaching of hate against Israelis or Americans any different than Christian teaching hate against Atheists? Religious fundamentalists of every sect, including the Orthodox Jews in Israel, are the ones teaching this sorry, sick, religious dogma.

That is one reason I am so disappointed in the silence of our more intellectually aware Christians in this country. They have allowed the Christian fundamentalists a free ride for nearly 20 years...and now every American, and much of the world, are paying for that false prophet.

Much as it would be nice if every American knew the Constitution and Bill of Rights, that simply isn't going to happen. Therefore, it must be the primary principles engendered in those documents, the ones which provide us our individual freedoms, that are given the most stress. The separation of church and state is one of the most important principles to be protected and defended. The American public must be educated to the reality that there are those who are doing everything in their power to destroy that separation and make this a one Sect, and eventually a one denomination, nation.

<a href="http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/saudi/analyses/wahhabism.html" target="_blank">http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/saudi/analyses/wahhabism.html</a>

<a href="http://www.publiceye.org/frontpage/911/Islam/rosenfeld2001-01.htm#TopOfPage" target="_blank">http://www.publiceye.org/frontpage/911/Islam/rosenfeld2001-01.htm#TopOfPage</a>

<a href="http://www.ripnet.org/wahhabism.htm" target="_blank">http://www.ripnet.org/wahhabism.htm</a>

oneofshibumi

Bushman,

Thank you for a some very good sites.

CaptainDave

Bushman?