PopeInTheWoods

Hey, I resemble that remark....

Amos

The "free love" marriage was an institution of the 11th century, I think, and was allowed after the crusades when all Catholics had become much the same and of similar mindset. Hence the blind "free love" marriage. If "free love" marriages are "arranged in heaven" ("for Love is not love when it alteration finds" (Shakespaere's Sonnets)), to be "arranged in heaven" means that heaven is a state of mind and since Catholics after the same tradition have already much in common they are close to "arranged marriages" to that same extent as Catholics are of the same mindset (tradition).

Next, you must understand the purpose of marriage, which is really the exposition of the inner sanctum after the opposites have been removed. Opposites attract and thus love is not blind but is arranged in heaven. For this to happen the word forever is needed or heaven would not be forever (but that is another argument).


Now, since the reformation (when all hell broke lose) that same is no longer true with the result that most marriages are no longer arranged in heaven but indeed are a nasty mixture between heaven and hell. Hence the failure of the real purpose of marriage with the subsequent increase in divorce rate etc.

It just might be best to have a divorce office next to the church and drop the word forever from the sermon. Heck why even get married at all? Or give it your best shot until something beter comes along. Split up the kids and the money, load up the furniture in the back of your 1/2 ton truck and just move along to greener pastures. We see it all the time now, don't we.

Amos

Mike Rosoft

I guess that this picture says it all.




Mike Rosoft

sullster

Amos, You remain a catholic bigot extraordinaire. I think that bigotry is evil and divorce is not, especially religious based bigotry. Your nonsense about the Reformation destroying marriage is utter rubbish. One of the societal changes which the Protestants brought about was the advocation of marriage. Your catholic church filled hundreds of convents and monasteries with lay-abouts who made a mockery of the male and female relationship. Marriage meant nothing to the medieval church, nothing.

There is no heaven and there certainly are no marriages coming from a fantasy. Marriage is a difficult yet rewarding thing for many people and it makes sense for the best raising of children. A failed marriage is hard enough without the scorn of a bunch of celebate medievalists who wear funny hats and dresses.

It is much better to end a failed marriage than to continue in agony because of the threats of an ancient institution which feels it is morally good to protect child-molesting priests. Obviously a child-molesting priest is of more concern to the church than the pain of a failed marriage.

IvanK

In Amos's defense (did I just write that?), one of his points was that it's better not to enter into what is likely to become a failed marriage in the first place. There's another point on which we agree. I for one have always felt that "'til death us do part" means something more than "'til I get bored, 'til things change too much or 'til something better comes along." Marriage ought to be a more serious business than it is for many people who get married.

sullster

I agree with your point here about marriage and for not entering into it without much thought. I still maintain though, that divorce is not an evil and that a failed marriage must be allowed to be dissolved. Humans do things for irrational reasons all the time and they must sometimes be allowed to escape misery without the censure of a bunch of religious dreamers.

I would raise the minimum age for marriage to 21 for one thing and would make contraception mandatory for all teenagers. Many failed marriages come from the lusts of youth, but they must be allowed to divorce. They do not need the scorn of old men in dresses who do not live in the real world. There is more evil in the world of priests than in divorce.

Henrietta

Also a good argument against those covenant marriage laws that some organization is pushing.

Amos

Interesting here is that in the "age of reason" we seem to become more "irrational" which is obvious by the increased divorce and abortion rates.

Amos

Note to sullster.

Marriage in Catholicism is a Sacrament (notice the word SACRET in here sullster) because it has, or can have, divine powers bestowed upon the union by God. In a free love marriage opposites are allowed to be the attraction and eros is the temporary sanctifier to remove these opposites as the couple journeys through philia and towards agape. Each and every successful marriage is successful in the same way and will always be exciting because it is based on a spiritual journey through the voluntary exchange between eros and agape (ashes for beauty) wherein not only the couple becomes one but also we as individuals become one with God and at peace with our own self.

The "free love" marriage was an extremely progressive move made by the Church and led to the greatest period enjoyed by any Church in the entire history of mankind. It actually encouraged the "free will" notion of man and spawned the idea of sin that was aimed towards the complete exhaustion of all human desires (this is based on "the cross of eternal salvation is for sinners only," notice also how this is just opposite to Puritanism). In this way, as the couple becomes one with each other, so do they in their own divided mind and is how paradise is regained as sacret bonus from God. The reformation added impediments to the mind of man and prevented this divine union to manifest itself freely and abundantly.

Today it is advised that we marry our best friend which is OK if stale marriages are desired and spiritual growth is not wanted. Friends are known to have all things in common and so it can be said that friends do not have anything to offer each other but enjoy their commonality only. Hence, the boring marriage that seeks external recognition for its approval and justification.

Marriages arranged in heaven, as I suggest, do not fail and cannot fail. It is only when impurities exist in our soul (wherein heaven is found), that things can go wrong. If this happens an annullment of the sacrament is possible and actually encouraged or it would not be a provision made by the Church. To me, this is not argument but just a necessary truth (included here should be no premarital sex, and later abortion and contraception).

Amos

IvanK

Well Amos, I did marry my best friend (who happens to be a Catholic BTW) and I don't happen to think our marriage is stale, boring or has nothing to offer. Whether it was "arranged in heaven" or not I leave to the judgement of yourself and any others who claim to be privy to the mysterious workings of Paradise. But from a mundane perspective it's working out just fine, thank you all the same.