Alonzo Fyfe

I place the following in this forum because it explains part of my passion concerning some of the issues I write about here.


My dad is a 100% disabled American Veteran who served 15 years in the military(including the end of WWII and all of the Korean War), until the crash of a military transport he was flying in resulted in a medical discharge.

As a result of the crash, he had lost much of his esophagus, most of his stomach and liver, plus his gall bladder and spleen.

I asked him his opinion about the Pledge of Allegiance ruling, and sought his permission to post his response here.


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Reference your communication dated 03 August 2002 the following is submitted for information and any action you may deem necessary: (This is the way I used to start most of my military communications. It worked great cause it offended no one either in a higher or lower echelon.)

However, here are some thoughts to answer your request for my opinion on "UNDER GOD" (whatever that is means )

In the past I'll admit, although it upset me when added to the Pledge of Allegiance, I really didn't dwell on it a lot. However, when that judge on the 9th Circuit Court of Appeal's declared it unconstitutional, I thoroughly concurred with his opinion. From the day his opinion became public and the hysteria that followed. I feel that "our" country really tumbled into the abyss of no return.

1. For instance the phrase "Separation Of Church and State" I always felt that it simply meant, All religious influence would be checked at the door of any government building. By this, I mean from the Capitol down to, and including any government, be it Federal, State, County, City, Capitals, Court Houses, Universities, or one room schools.

2. When those 99 clowns in the Senate gathered on the steps of the Capitol and en mass shredded an important part of our constitution by invoking their Judo/Christian beliefs on the people of this nation. i.e. giving the pledge and emphasizing "UNDER GOD". THIS NO LONGER IS A PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE TO THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. It now states that we are all subordinate to a mythical deity. Simply, I mean that we have subordinated the Constitution to a book, the Bible, which to this day is interpreted to enhance the stature of its believers. In this, I include the "Book of Mormon, The Koran, the Jewish Bible? and any and all of the thousands of beliefs around the world.

3. Now to expound some on religion and the military. First off, in yours truely's case, I was never administered the oath when enlisting, re-enlisting or formally extending an enlistment to complete a mission or project. I just signed some papers and I was in. So, I was never put in the position of saying "So Help Me God". Most of our friends in the military, due to my position of Senior Non - Commissioned officer, were officers. All of our interactions were with officers which carried off into our social life. I sent them on missions and debriefed them when (and if) they got back. There were only four, who I knew what their religion was. Bob Bell, Catholic. Bob and his wife Jackie, prayed for my recovery, nightly, when I was considered terminal. Frances (Zip) Taillon, Catholic. Zip was one of the Squadron Fighter Pilots that tried to organize a fighter escort for me when we left Guam on an Air Vac plane. He couldn't as they weren't allowed to fly within four miles of a hospital plane. Donald (Dad) Horn, A Mason so know he wasn't Catholic. Masons have been very strong and powerful in the Military. Charles (Charlie) Fair, non-religious. He is who your brother Chuck is named after and was killed when his F-86D disappeared out over the pacific. In the memorial service for him the Chaplain literally condemned him to hell for his lack of religious beliefs. (This is one reason I seldom attend any funerals and insist that there will be no funeral for me upon my death.)
While in Korea there were hundreds of orphans living and dying in the bombed out train station in Seoul. One time a group of us guys scrounged some candy bars and other food and took it to them. MISTAKE!! It nearly started a riot as those kids nearly tore themselves apart trying to get some food and there was not nearly enough to go around. We went to the Chief of Chaplains and asked him, and the other "holy Joes" to organize a program to get clothes and food and shelter for those kids. They didn't have time!!!! They where more interested in hanging around the officers club (all chaplains are commissioned) and working at getting promotions. (So much for living in poverty.)

At this juncture allow me to digress to January 21st, 1946. This was the day I enlisted in the Army. While filling in the information to be entered on my dog tages, I was given the choice of: P - Protestant; C - Catholic; A - Atheist; or O - Other. A benevolent old Sergeant advised me to use "P" rather than any of the others as my chances for advancement were not as good using "C" or "O", but nearly non-existent using "A". ( The Jewish persuasion used "O " because to use "J" was not conclusive to longevity if shot down over or captured by members of the Third Reich.). So you see, a Jew turned Atheist really had a decision to make. Myself, I took the easy way out and carried "P " on my dog tags for nearly 15 years. January 21, 1946 was my 18th birthday, so still just a kid.

6. Your Mother just brought me a 27 August 1987 quote by H.W. Bush when he was Presidential Nominee for the Republican Party::: " No, I DON'T KNOW THAT ATHEISTS SHOULD BE CONSIDERED AS CITIZENS, NOR SHOULD THEY BE CONSIDERED AS PATRIOTS. THIS IS ONE NATION UNDER GOD."

Boy, that gives me a lift and lets me know how much my service was appreciated.

7. A. While at the doings we used to go to at Minot ND all programs were started with "God Bless America", not the Star Spangled Banner. Everyone stood up. We questioned if the people no longer knew or recognized their own National Anthem and thought" God Bless America" was it. . (This really confused the Canadians who attended in droves - as well as us.)

B. Although I have more service time, combat time and decorations than probably 90% of members of the Veterans of Foreign Wars, I am not eligible for membership because I will not sign their oath that states in the last sentence "I CERTIFY THAT I BELIEVE IN GOD."

C. Although I am a Life Member of the Disabled American veterans, I cannot attain any position of leadership as step 3 in the hierarchy is Post Chaplain. Can't you see me giving the opening prayer and saying "God Bless This Group"??

8. Although I could go on in perpetuity, I guess I'll conclude thusly. I am thoroughly disgusted with this travesty that has been force fed to "My Country." As far as "sacrificing" so much for my country, I never consider my military career as such. Protecting "Our Country" was my vocation. I was proud to have been in Intelligence. Guardian of some of our highest military secrets, from Confidential, Secret and Top Secret. Now material is considered secure only as long as it takes some jerk (congressman, staff member and yes, many senior members, both civilian and Military) to get before a camera and microphone.

I don't know if you have heard of, or remember Jack Anderson, an investigative reporter, during the 40's, 50's and 60's. Anyhow he gained access to my office (Counter Intelligence/Counter Espionage ) in Triest, Free Territory of Triest. I was warned that this clown was heading my way by one of our British Operatives. I was working with some highly classified material and didn't have time to secure it, so I sat on it until he left. We were a joint section with British Intelligence and he got by their security people. Suggest you look up TRIEST US TROOPS ( TRUST ). Also Miramare Castle, our headquarters, and the cities of Triest, Gorizia, Duino, and Monfalconi. Our Intelligence units were in all of these places. Also, 88th (Blue Devil Dissuasion) 1946.

Thank you, Alonzo, for asking.
Love Dad

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As an added note, a few weeks ago my dad went to a military air show. He still loves anything having to do with airplanes. Before the main event -- a performance by the Blue Angels, the master of ceremonies read the following piece over the loudspeaker:


"In God We Trust" is our national motto.
This is not some Christian, right wing, political slogan.

We adopted this motto because men and women, on principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools.
If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home,
because God is part of our culture.

If Stars and Stripes offend you, or you don't
like Uncle Sam, then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet.

We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really don't care how you did things where you came from.

This is OUR COUNTRY, our land, and our lifestyle.
Our First Amendment gives every citizen the right to express his opinion and we will allow you every opportunity to do so. But, once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about our flag, our pledge, our national motto, or our way of life,

I highly encourage you to take advantage of one other great American freedoms, the right to leave.

So, here's my dad, who gave his best in helping to defend this country, and did so proudly, being told in public that because he does not believe in God that he should leave the country he worked so hard to keep free.

In his place, I wonder what that must have felt like.

Abacus

It would be cool if what you just posted here could be published in a newspaper. It would be very enlightening for the general public to hear your dad's story.

Abacus

Oh, and I can't believe that read that tripe over the loudspeaker. What the fuck is wrong with some people?!

Caverdude

Alonzo,
Your Dad is one cool dude!!! It is extremely distressing that the very freedoms that he gave so much for (and many other like my dad too) are under attack by Bible worshipers. This an alert to all Freethinkers: We are at war!!! (see my post under "Pledge propaganda"). Next time you see your Dad, give him a high five for me and tell him that there are a lot of people out there (like me) who appreciate what he did.

Starspun

Do me a favor, please. Tell him thank you for me and my family. He sacrificed much in service to this country and deserves better than this. As do all you Atheist service men and women.

Arrowman

Alonzo, I have admired your clear and concise arguments on the Pledge and similar issues. Now I see where you get it from! Your Dad seems like a great guy. Buy him a beer for me!

As for the air show debacle; wtf?! Perhaps an abridged version of your dad's letter might be forwarded to the organisers.

Perhaps your Dad could sue them for his ticket money; after all, he thought he was buying a ticket to a "military air show" when clearly it was a "religious air show".

Viti

You should call any sympathetic reporter and ask them to do a story. I know several editorials in my paper were very supportive of the pledge ruling and critical of the right wing nutjobs. Maybe even write and article yourself and submit it to varous sources

Your Dad is to be admired and must have been a great role model

Stephen Maturin

Three cheers for your father, Alonzo! He sounds like one helluva fine man all the way around. Please pass along my thanks for giving us the benefit of his experience and thoughts.

Garbage such as this . . .

. . . has been around forever, and it's not going away any time soon. Unfortunately, hearing it over and over doesn't make it any easier to put up with. Sad to say, I'm incapable of responding to such comments rationally. I usually answer by encouraging the speaker to exercise his freedom to shove his Johnson up a donkey's backside, because I'm not going anywhere.

DVF

My humble respect to your father Alonzo. I would like his permission to forward the text of his letter to the local paper.

MOJO-JOJO

Most people in this "culture" he's speaking of are ignorant, supersticious, self-righteous knuckleheads, who think that waving the American flag and the Jesus flag together, is a patriotic obligation of ANYone that calls himself an American.

Someone should have shouted, "Praise ALLAH!" after he was done with his little incantation.