Vicar Philip

I don't know HOW the hell to deal with her. I guess she's hoping I'll just shut up and stand in the corner like I used to.

During the meeting she kept saying, "But he comes home and says he doesn't believe in god." No matter what he said, she came back with this. Finally, he told her to add four words to the end of that: "I don't believe in god the way you do. It's a matter of semantics, anyway. I don't believe in god as a being, and I'm not really comfortable with calling "everything" "god". But if this will let her STOP focusing on me "not believing in god" and simply holding a different view of life, maybe we can get ON with our damn lives.

I don't know what's going on in her head. I suppose she's lost god as her security blanket as far as I'm concerned, plus I'm not conforming to every jot and tittle she expects me to. The ball is in her court; I hope she does something with it, 'cause I'm ready to hit the showers.

brett, I don't know if she intends to go back to see the pastor or not. Since he didn't immediately take her side and point the finger of god at me, she was an UNHAPPY CAMPER. Maybe you're right, she's going to need some time to come to grips with that. I don't know. I need a beer.

Bree

I'm going to stick my neck WAAAY out here.

I've read all 23 pages of this thread with interest and so far have kept myself from posting a response. I feel this is out of my league, so to speak, and any advice I would give would be woefully inadequate. Since I have no official advice, here is some food for thought: if the roles were reversed (i.e. a woman was posting about her husband saying and doing these things to harass her about her lack of faith) people would be crying "ABUSE! ABUSE!" Holding someone emotionally hostage, making threats, and destroying personal property are all signs of an abusive relationship. When the roles are reversed we are more reluctant to speak up.

brighid

Bree,

A number of people have noted that her behavior is abusive, he should be wary of potential danger, etc. (including myself) and that no one (man or woman) deserves to be treated this way. You are correct in that regard, but I think a lot has been said within this thread and everyone is doing their best to support Vicars decisions and hopes, even if some disagree with his choices. And dangit ... 23 pages of this is alot to digest ... you are a trooper! It took me hours to read when it was half this size.

Brighid

jj

BE CAREFUL that she doesn't use you saying that to argue that you abandoned her.

It's time for you to RUN AS FAST AS YOU CAN for legal advice. and psychological advice.

I think you need to make sure the guitar thing is documented, and make sure all of her various threats, etc, are witnessed and documented, but I'm not a laywer, and you need one NOW. I repeat NOW. Not later, but NOW. Not to file for divorce, but TO PROTECT YOUR OWN SAFETY AND FREEDOM.

You need to protect yourself at this point, you can't help anyone else until you protect yourself.

Godless Dave

I and many others have said that before but it bears repeating. Please, Vicar Philip, consult with a lawyer at your earliest opportunity. It does NOT mean you want a divorce. Your wife has threatened divorce several times and it only makes sense to protect yourself.

southernhybrid

The one positive thing that may have come out of that session is that you are beginning to realize that your marital problems are not as simple as, "she won't accept my atheism." I don't think we should be making diagnosis regarding your wife's behavior. She may be totally free of organic mental illness and just be an emotionally labile individual that has never matured or moved beyond her own emotional baggage and intense need to control. She seems to have learned to be abusive from her own father, based on what you've told us. It's a cycle.

I think you need to decide whether or not you are willing to stay in this type of relationship. I've seen people in my nursing practice in their 80s that have lived with contention and emotional turmoil for over fifty years. Unless your wife starts to take some responsibility for your problems, you may be headed for many more years of her abusive behavior.

My only suggestion is that you continue to seek counseling for yourself, and encourage her to seek counseling with you . If you decide that life would be worse without her than with her, you should try to find ways to cope with living on such an emotional rollar coaster. Just be realistic. People like your wife, rarely change. They certainly don't change without admitting they have a problem.

I waited for nine years for my first husband to change. He's been married twice since our divorce. Each wife has had the same complaints. The third wife seems to be willing to live in that situation. As for me, I've found that a peaceful, harmonious marriage is the only kind worth having. That may not be the way you feel. Only you can decide what to do. We can tell you our own experiences but we're not the ones walking in your shoes. We can't possibly know what's best for you or your children.

I wish I could say something more hopeful but I just don't see hope on the horizon for you at this point.

Vicar Philip

What sort of legal advice are you folks advocating? I'm not even sure what to ask. I'm not sure if I'm really at that point yet. We shall see.

I'm going to withhold judgement on this last meeting until my wife and I come to some resolution, either tonight or tomorrow. We only spoke once today, on the phone. She wanted to make sure our youngest daughter was getting dropped off at the regular babysitter. Neither one of us said "I love you."

I get to replace our sump-pump tonight, so I won't be too available. I'm curious to see how she'll act towards me when I get home. She'll either want to make up or she'll have some fresh new ultimatum for me. I hear everyone saying it's not worth living life like this. I'm starting to agree. It's just never been this bad.

jj

What can my wife do, assuming that she is willing to abuse the system in any way possible.

What can I do to protect myself?

How can I document her abuse?

How can I document her destructive acts?

How can I document her accusations, threats, and other unpleasant behaviors.

How can I avoid being falsely accused?

How, if push comes to shove, can I protect the children?

That kind of questions...

You need to CYA and you need to CYA

N O W

Godless Dave

Explain to the attorney that you don't want a divorce but you fear your wife might initiate one. Ask him jj's questions in that context. Make it clear that if she divorces you, you want full custody of the children (but maybe you'll settle for primary custody) because of her erratic and verbally abusive behavior.

Albion

Well, I hope for your sake she isn't a control freak in quite the mould my mother was. She took every disagreement personally and remembered it for years and spent a large amount of her life plotting revenge of one sort or another. With major problems, she obsessed and obsessed and obsessed and plotted and planned and revelled in every misfortune that happened to the people who had dared try and break her grip on their lives. She was the cause of a rift between her brother and her sister that started in the early 1960s and is alive and well to this day, and she never acknowledged any responsibility other than that she was right and her brother should damn well get over it. The only thing that stopped it was when Alzheimers fried her brain, or she'd still be sitting there trying to control everything in sight. She tried to interfere between me and my husband a few times when our lives weren't taking the direction she thought was appropriate, and she never forgave my husband for telling her to get her claws out of us. I've asked my dad how he managed to stand it, but the thing is that he's one of those absent-minded professor types and most of the time he didn't even notice. Doesn't sound as though you have that option.

If my mother is anything to go by, it seems to me that one of the biggest problems with control freaks is their massive lack of empathy. They simply cannot (or will not) see any point of view but their own. It's possible that marriage counselling or personality-type counselling will help IF she can break out of the "I'm right and everybody else had better just give in" attitude. But I think it's like with an addiction - she needs to face the fact that she has this problem or she won't get anywhere. Maybe the best you can hope for is that she can see that her problem is driving a wedge between her and the people she's trying to control and that she'll have to soften up on the outside at least (however much she privately thinks the rest of the world needs to be told what to do) or she'll drive away the very people she wants to be close to.

If this is happening to you now, you can be sure it'll happen to your kids as soon as they try to exert a bit of independence or pick a college or subject of study or job she disapproves of or brings home the wrong boyfriend or girlfriend. She'll have her claws in their brains before they're old enough to understand what's happening. I didn't enjoy moving to this country - I've always been homesick - but the one good thing about it (apart from bookstores that stay open till midnight!) is that it put 5000 miles and an eight-hour time difference between me and my mother. And when she started the dementia, all I could think of was that it was poetic justice. And when she died, I was glad. That's what a control freak has to look forward to from her nearest and dearest if she doesn't do something about her attitude to them. And that's what your wife is asking for.