JCS

The relationship described in this thread could go either way in fact it continually does. Speaking to a lawyer gives the Vicar a leg up on what to expect, what his rights are, and what steps to take if everything starts to go down the crapper.

Just from the information that Vicar Philip has provided it appears both want their marriage to work out, but the D word has been let out of the box. I think even for informational purposes that both Vicar Philip and his wife should know what it is that they would be facing in such an event.

HelenM

It sounds like he's been through a lot. I hope it is not a hereditary type of cancer that he might get also.

That's neat - that's less than a week away. So is it some kind of class you'd do with her or private counseling? If it's partly state-funded that's a plus because counseling can be rather expensive.

Having sick kids really takes it out of you, even if you're not sick as well - which seems to happen too half the time.

I hope things go well on the 6th, then!

take care
Helen

Proxima Centauri

Vicar Philip has said,

Quote:

My wife is depressed today, but it's her job getting her down. It also doesn't help that three of our four kids are or have been sick the last couple days.

The stress those poor kids have been under probably made them less resistant to infection. Consider mentioning that to your wife or to the councillor.

muon

Quick question, VP (in 30 pages of text I don't think I've seen the answer, amazingly enough):

If things end in divorce, do you want custody of the kids?

Albion

Well, given your financial situation, it may not be all that great an idea to be consulting lawyers just yet, but it probably wouldn't hurt to do a bit of research to see who might be a good candidate if it does come to it.

Would your wife be rational enough about this situation to enter into an agreement with you, and then for both of you to stick to it, to keep your shout-and-scream-and-storm-out-in-disgust arguments for the times when the kids aren't around? You might know that most of her behaviour is just immature control-freak pouting, and she might even have an inkling, but it's a pretty good bet that the children don't and that they're taking all this stuff at face value. That has to be scary for them.

As far as the "God is good, praise God" counsellor is concerned, I suppose one thing about it is that if you think about your reaction to her, it might explain your wife's reaction to counsellors and helpers who are nontheists, even if they aren't pushing their opinions. It seems to be such a given with fundamentalists that everybody else is out to convert the world as well, just because that's what they themselves are doing. Maybe if you see this counsellor as well as continue to go to the pastor who deconverted, you'll get some balance. And if she really tries to tell the pair of you that your reconverting is the only thing that'll work, you can file a complaint because that would be way out of line.

The problem as far as I can see is that your wife is a controlling sort of person who is at present not in control of some important things in her life. This sort of thing eats at control freaks - in their rational moments they can pretend that they can live with it, but the rational moments aren't the majority, and it doesn't take much to set them off. When I think of the way that my mother behaved - for years - toward people who had committed the huge sin of not knuckling under, I just wonder how these people can ever be dealt with. Of course, in mother's case nobody really tried - dad ignored most of it and I moved out of the country - but I can't imagine her ever listening to a counsellor. There was a way that the world should be (her way) and she had the right to force reality to conform with that picture and everybody else ought to jolly well be grateful and that was that. But in your wife's case, who sounds like a less self-sufficient person than my mother, perhaps it's possible that she'd listen to someone talking sense about destructive behaviour.

Vicar Philip

oser,

Yes, I would fight for the custody of my kids.

Albion,

She is controlling, or, as she puts it, "stubborn." Another one of our problems is our totally opposite "styles" so to speak of how we get angry. She gets angry in a flash, burns it out, and is over it in a matter of minutes. I, on the other hand, slowly get angry, and then just as slowly allow it to dissipate (or pout, as she puts it). So what happens is she flares up, I get pissed, and before long she is ready to make up. Of course I'm not, and have just gotten good and pissed by that point. My pissiness only triggers her to anger again, and so it goes. Sounds pretty stupid, doesn't it. Grown adults acting like 2-year olds.

Another issue we have, or I should say I have, is her double standard about work. When I'm at work, she expects me to be able to talk to her whenever and for however long she wants me to. When I tell her I have to go, and she's feeling needy, she interprets that as rejection. However, when she was at work and I'd call her, she'd only talk for a few minutes and then have to go. She says this is because I'm "my own boss," and don't have to worry about being in trouble since I have my own office. Never mind that my boss comes by quite often to inquire about this or that project. Oh no, I have some other ulterior motive in mind to not want to talk to her for 30 minutes a stretch. Sheesh.

This is the kind of shit I'm really hoping the counseling can help with. I do think her insecurity is the root of these types of problems.

callmejay

Hi VC, I just read most of this thread. I'm a single young male, so feel free to ignore my advice, but I was thinking that maybe it would help you to read up on living with a person who has depression or bipolar disorder. I'm sure there are a lot of books whose sole purpose is to help you learn to cope with them (if possible.) I'm no psychologist or husband or anything, but it seems like her religious issues are more a symptom than a cause of her issues and that it might be more useful to you to look at it from a mental health/relationship perspective than a a/theistic one.

Hope you can work it out and be happy somehow!

Vicar Philip

Today we talked to a Christian marriage counselor for two hours (it was originally supposed to be an hour). I was able to look past the fundy-ism and see that what this program has to offer is truly valuable. The course itself (Family Life Skills) is not religion based, even though the director of the place who we met with today obviously is.

The first thing we did was fill out a two-page questionnaire which got pretty detailed. It asked about abuse as a child, violence, molestation, etc. After we started talking to the counselor, she told us that rejection of a child by a parent or parents is the most harmful aspect of a bad childhood. Yes, physical and verbal abuse are bad, not to mention sexual abuse. But these are all forms of rejection. This struck a nerve with my wife, and when we looked at a chart describing progressive destructive behaviors related all the way back to the initial rejection, we found nearly every symptom to be applicable. It was almost scary.

I only cringed a few times, like when she talked about "the blood of Jesus washing our hearts over and over" and how "He loves us so much, and this is all God's plan" (capitalization hers). Oh well. One thing I'm thankful for is my expanding tolerance. Three months ago I couldn't have sat there and listened to her. The prospect of losing the love of my life, as well as the damage that would have been inflicted on my poor kids, also helps bring things into perspective. Her god-talk made my wife feel better, and she (my wife) did actually mention to me on the ride home that she wondered if I was squirming while the counselor babbled on and on about Jesus Christ, her Personal Saviour. I told her it really didn't bother me that much, that I'm willing to do what it takes to keep my marriage intact. The progress my wife has made already is VERY encouraging.

We are going to take their 26-week classes, there are separate ones for the men and women. I know it will benefit me, too; I've got a tendency to be passive-aggressive, and this course teaches one to be assertive. The course also teaches people how to argue and remain friends, and maybe even more importantly for us, agree to disagree on certain subjects. The counselor told us that specifically, although she made it a point to tell me that "God wouldn't give up on me," evidently referring to my non-belief. Don't hold your breath, sky-daddy.

So, despite the Christian rhetoric and this particular counselor's flaming fundy-ism, I am looking forward to the course. It's exciting for me to see actual hope glimmer in my wife's eyes. I would be ecstatic to see her break out of this self-imposed prison she's constructed for herself, all because of her loser mother. Don't ever underestimate the damage that can be done in childhood. Man.

Albion

Well, that all sounds very encouraging, and with luck and effort on your part and hers, it might well go on that way. Aren't you proud of yourself that you could be so tolerant of a raving fundie? Hope your wife was duly impressed.

Did the questionnaire mention anything about support groups? Just wondering if your participation here is going to come to light and what your wife's reaction might be.

HelenM

Darren,

I was just thinking you hadn't posted on here lately and hoping that no news is good news - then I saw you posted last night.

I'm very glad to hear the session went well and that you were able to tolerate the theistic things the counselor said, for the sake of your wife and your marriage.

take care
Helen