Javaman

Sorry if this is old news but...

Has <a href="http://www.theory-of-evolution.org/" target="_blank">this site</a> been discussed in another thread?

I'm struggling with "Intelligent Grappling" at the moment but I'd like to know more about ID. Especially some anti-ID sites.

Big Thanks

Javaman

[oops]Mods, I must need more coffee 'cause I really wanted this in E/C. Could you move it?[/oops]

pz

I hadn't looked at it before...but Great Jebus, it's yet another Intelligent Design load of hoo-ha proposed by an electrical engineer! What is it with engineers and creationism? Do they all get a course in college called "You now know more about biology than biologists"?

Seriously, though, what I've seen of it so far in a quick and superficial glimpse is that it's just another example of the traditional argument from scientific incredulity coupled to the even more traditional christian credulity. Don't waste your time with it: it's garbage.

Dr.GH

There are a growing number of web sites which debunk aspects of ID. Here are a few:

<a href="http://www.talkdesign.org/" target="_blank">http://www.talkdesign.org/</a>

<a href="http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/wells/" target="_blank">http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/wells/</a>

<a href="http://www.nmsr.org/iconanti.htm" target="_blank">http://www.nmsr.org/iconanti.htm</a>

[ September 22, 2002: Message edited by: Dr.GH ]</p>

Javaman

My thanks, Dr.GH. I'll have a look see.

pz, I'm marginally pissed that that site has that URL... but what are ya' gonna do?

Again, thank you.

P.S. I finally got my very own copy of "The Blind Watchmaker." I don't have a lot of evolution knowledge (I knew I should have read my dad's SJG books before I left home) but I figure the Dawkins book should be a good start.

Bialar Crais

Just another big collection of crap. I mean, look at the front page:

"The theory of evolution does not explain the origin of complexity.
Natural selection does not play a role in the evolution of new genes, because genes that do not exist cannot offer a selective advantage."

The dude seems to think clairvoyance would be needed. He fails to recognize the simple fact that IF a gene comes into existance that provides an advantage in an environment, THEN it will be selected for. This idea is so ludicrous I think it would fit within a Cretinist Hall Of Fame.

"New genes must evolve through chance. "

And selection is a non-random event. Positive feedback should be a known concept me thins.

"The likelihood that a new gene can arise through chance is extraordinary small."

Perhaps if point mutations where all there is. But there's frameshift, and inversions, and deletions, etc...and not to mention neutral selection and sexual reproduction to give rise to new variants.

"This low probability is not effectively offset by the vast amount of time and space available for evolution. "

Mere assertion.

"The likelihood that thousands of genes can evolve through chance is so small that the scientific method dictates that this option be discarded."

No, it does not. Neither does statistics. Old balooney this "the probability is too small!"-whine.

"Science does not have a viable explanation for the evolution of complexity. "

It sure does. Have all discoveries in evolutionary science marched opast this guy without making any kind of First Contact?

"The theory of evolution does not explain the origin of life."

True. And it was never intended too. Abiogenesis, of course, is what tries to answer that.

"Experiments to produce the chemical precursors necessary for life have failed. "

Not at all. There is no problem fidnign an abundance of experiments supporting abiogenesis with a simple google search. I mean Google for IPUs sake!

"Geological, theoretical and experimental evidence suggest that these chemical precursors did not exist. "

Evidence of this assertion?

"Energy, self organization, and non-equilibrium thermodynamics do not explain the origin of information."

And what do he mean with information. From a Shannon-perspective or a Komogorov-perspective?

"Without the necessary precursors and with no clear way to produce the required information, the origin of life remains a mystery"

Introduce standard cluelessnes of information. *sigh* <img src="graemlins/boohoo.gif" border="0" alt="[Boo Hoo]" />