David M. Payne

No surprise for me, theists have no way out of this argument except to say that it's OK to be a slave/servant of God and his authoritarian dogma. They can't deny their belief in God is authoritarian in nature, so their best bet is to use the old "Gods ends justify his means" argument. You know, the same argument that Hitler, Stalin, and Mao among other adherents of authoritarian dogma, use.


Though I'm a big believer in democracy, it does have its limitations. The majority can unjustly penalize the minority at times, much like we freethinkers are often socially penalized for our unbelief by theists who find us a threat to their very existence. At least here, we don't get murdered for our non-belief, as happens in some Islamic nations. I mean, if we are right, what have they been doing all this time, giving their time and money to the various religious for you know, "the usual." Hopefully some day this God nonsense will fade away from the collective memory of humanity, and we can get on with the business of evolving into whatever we are to become.

I remember an old saying that went something like, "The best form of Government is a benign Dictatorship." The problem is finding a benign dictator, isn't it?

David

"God and religion, the oldest scam in history, and it still sucks them in today, so free your mind, and your body will follow!"

-RRH-

The major religions all developed from cultures where dictators were the norm. There's some similarities in the treatment of God. In the old testament, nobody questions whether God deserves your worship, just as they rarely ask whether the monarch deserved to rule.

So, in a sense, I think the authoritarian nature of these religions arose from the nature of the governing of the times.

But still, authoritarianism seems to be integral to religion. Can you even imagine a democratic religion? Democracy is antithetical to the idea of worship.



(On the other hand, maybe the model from the Terry Pratchett novels could count as a democratic religion. The Gods become more powerful the more people worship them. And that explains many Gods' egotistical demands for worship. But I have yet to meet someone who believes that's outside the realm of fiction.)

schu

Democracy should be very limited! The founders lay out a republic for this country, but even that was limited by what they called the inalienable (unalienable) rights. In a true democracy these rights should be greatly expanded and more exactly defined. If they are not defined and defended the majority simply ends up voting largess for themselves from the government regardless of the rights of other people.

Well, we may not be murdered outright, but the fundies wouldn't mind starving us to death, and it has been my experience that they will try to do so at every turn. I agree we will be better off without the "god in the head" syndrom that the fundies suffer, but I don't see them changing soon.

It doesn't seem that stable populations evolve much. What it seems to take to spur on evolution is a highly stressed population. So if evolution is what is wanted, maybe a good nuclear war is in order!

I like Jefferson's maxim much better: "That government governs best which governs least."

David M. Payne

Good point RPH. The Abrahamic religions must by their very nature be authoritarian in nature, just as any secular dictatorship is authoritarian in nature.

David

"God and religion, the oldest scam in history, and it still sucks them in today. So free your mind, and your body will follow!"

David M. Payne

Hi schu, long time no see.

Yes, limited gov�t. is best, the argument is just how limited it should be.


We are a danger to the theist perspective, as we are able to function very well without any beliefs in their God/religion nonsense. Like all people who have bought into a scam, the more we point out that they are being sucked in, the more they resist the idea that they could be such suckers. I think BB put it best:
I hope this isn't the case, and I believe it isn't so prevalent these days, though stress is certainly a factor in most of our development as a species. I look at evolution as a very long-term prospect for humanity. If we can survive the wars that authoritarianism continually brings us, our future will be bright.

David

"God and religion, the oldest scam in history, and it still sucks them in today. So free your mind, and your body will follow!"

VonEvilstein

The "chicken and egg" comparison is meaningless! The egg was laid by a proto-chicken - almast a chicken, but not quite...

David M. Payne

Hmm, I wonder if the Abrahamic God was created by a proto-God?

David

"God and religion, the oldest scam in history, and it still sucks them in today. So free your mind, and your body will follow!"

-RRH-

No, it would have been created by proto-authoritarians. And the proto-authoritarian philosophy would have made by proto-theists. And proto-theism was created by proto-proto-authoritarians...

David M. Payne

I think you're on to something here RRH, lets keep it just between us though, I wouldn't want the theists here to find out about this new discovery of yours.

David

"God and religion, the oldest scam in history, and it still sucks them in today. So free your mind, and your body will follow!"