Shake

First, apologies to the folks at Evolve Fish one of whose stickers I borrowed for the title of this topic.

Second, is this sad story from the II Newswire. To summarize, 9 year-old's mom dies some months after a miscarriage. Son gets very depressed and dies some months later. The whole family is part of one of those sects that don't believe in going to the doctor. EVER!C'mon people! Get out of the Dark Ages! It's sad enough that a mother of 7 should die so young (39), but to then lose one of the children, evidently just due to depression - they're not sure yet, is just awful! The kid should have been in counselling or something. Here's what the family did when Benjamin's mom was taken ill:See how much good that did her? And now you've lost a little boy as well. How can people stick to such beliefs in this day and age? :banghead: If medical science can keep a 1 lb. premie alive and allow it to grow up and lead a normal life, why should people die from much more treatable ailments or injuries? Why in a civilized, technologically advanced society does this go on? I'll just never get my head around it.

Still another reason why you'll never catch me praying to anyone for anything! [/rant off]

Shadownought

I've seen stories like that before (I remember seeing one on the news). It's incredibly depressing.

Starboy

This is probably the one case where religious freedom needs to be curtailed. If the parents have no children they can be as crazy as they like, but when kids are involved they have to behave responsibly otherwise their kids should be taken away. Funny thing is if they were drug addicts or alcoholics or had any of the many other behavioral problems they could loose their kids, but if it is insanity due to religion the state looks the other way. I guess it is what should be expected when the loonies in power tout the effectiveness of religion to cure society’s ills. They are hardly going to point out its abuses.

Starboy

Ab_Normal

This is the one topic my husband and I cannot discuss. I'm all in favor of calling refusing medical attention for sick children child abuse; he's afraid of over-extending the power of the state to interfere in families.

beyelzu

Letting a child die because you are a fundie is child abuse. It does make me sick.

Shake

Over in CSS&SA, there's a thread which linked me to this article about an appointment to a national panel on women's health. This guy is anti-choice. Check this out:Emphasis added. Oh boy, I can hear it now:
"Dear Lord, I need you take a minute away from fixing the problems of worldwide starvation and war, 'cause I've got some really bad cramps and I can feel a bitch of a migraine coming on. Thanks. Amen."
I'm sure some women have prayed for divine intervention when they were PMSing and wanted to kill their idiot husbands!

Starboy

Tell your husband, it is way toooo late for that. The state has been interfering with families for some time now.

Starboy

Mediancat

It's only child abuse until the child dies. Then it's murder.

I'm all for people refusing medical attention on their own behalfs (if they're that dumb, I say go ahead, let them remove themselves from the gene pool). But on a child's behalf? No. No parent has a right to let their child die IF there is something that can be reasonably done to save them.

When I hear about cases like this, I don't feel any sympathy for the grieving parents; all I feel is anger. In my opinion they're as guilty of killing that child as if they'd beaten him to death with a baseball bat, or let him starve.

There's something. Letting your child starve IS child abuse under the law. Yet letting them go without medical attention is somehow religious freedom?

I don't get it.

Rob aka Mediancat

wildernesse

Parents cannot legally deny life saving or major suffering-easing treatments for their children. Doctors can get court orders to treat children in some cases--and I assume that they can treat without a court order hoping that any reasonable judge would agree that they would have granted a court order in that case.

From the University of Washington School of Medicine.

I think that the death of the boy due to depression would never be caught as neglect due to the fact that mental illnesses and disorders still aren't seen as real illnesses that need treatment. Many people are told to get over it and deal with it--who would tell that to someone with a visible wound?

Where this becomes an issue for me is when parents sign DNR (do not resuscitate) orders for preemies born very very early--and docs go ahead and ignore the order because the child might possibly live, only it might have such severe developmental problems that it will never function as an adult. I have problems with doctors that do that against parents' wishes. Invasive medical treatment isn't part of natural life (altho I'm very thankful for it, I hope I never need it) and I don't think that people who opt not to have their babies tubed up and pumped full of things should have to do that. Death is very, very sad and I hope I never have to face losing a child--but death is a part of life, and sometimes suffering is worse than death. NY Times article about parents whose wishes were overturned by a hospital whose policy was to always resuscitate a baby over 1lb 2oz.

--tibac

Amie

I really wish she had someone in her life who could have helped her get some medical attention, its really unfortunate. Doctors help to heal people everyday, I see nothing Satanic about someone trying to help themself by going to see a doctor...

This reminds me of last summer. My friend's mother was in a coma and the doctors said she was going to die. Well I went with my friend Heather to the hospital so she could say goodbye and her sisters were there as well. They are 3 born again Christians. They wanted to light some "healing incense" and annoint her with some oil they had gotten from someone and I was saying it was not a good idea, there was oxygen in the room so they cant be lighting things. Then the nurse came in and said there were too many of us in there so 2 at a time would be better so I wandered out to the hall and her 3 sisters came and they were telling me that it is completely unfair that they needed to pray. So I said well pray, there is a chapel down the hall or just pray here in the hallway. Then they said "no we have to pray as we put the oil on her" So I just said "I really dont think you have to do that, I believe God will hear you regardless of any oil"...
That night another friend went to visit the hospital and they said "Oh you just missed Heather and Amie, now Heather is still searching and needs some time to be with God herself but Amie is just really fucked up"
All because I said not to light the incense and the oil was not necessary to pray?! Even when it comes to praying I think some people can take things to extremes...

I am all for praying however favoring prayer and disregarding medical treatment when ones life is on the line is when belief becomes a potentially dangerous thing

I prayed when I started to get severe migraines. My migraines persisted. I went to the damn doctor.
Amie~