K

luvluv:

Since God can do evil, and I'll assume (correct me if I'm wrong) that we can't know the mind of God, does that mean it's perfectly possible that God will start acting in a purely evil way?

Mageth

I've heard various christians claim he can, he can't, he will, and he won't. Apparently there are various bible verses to back up just about any position on this you want.

Whatever, if you say he can but won't commit evil, you also must note that he apparently either can't or won't prevent other agents from doing evil. This poses a bit of a problem if one also claims god is omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent. Is it evil for a being with the power to know and prevent evil from doing so? (I know; the tired old argument from evil).

luvluv

Possible in the sense that one could assign a mathematical probability to it that would be greater than zero? I'd say no, in that sense it is not possible.

It is however possible that it is an option that is available to Him, that He will never use.

K

luvluv:

If the probability of it happening is not greater than zero, then it is not a possibility open to Him. That's simply the definition of possibility.

Now here's the scary part. If it truly is possible for God to do evil (ie. the probability of it happening is finite), then given an infinity of time, it is guaranteed that He will do evil! Even more amazing, given an infinite amount of time, God will perform every act that is possible for Him to perform no matter how heinous. Are you sure you want to agree that "with God all things are possible?" (I know you never said you subscribed to that statement, it just seemed to fit really well).

ManM

Jamie_L,
We are free to oppose God, and therefore God cannot be omnipotent (at least in the scholastic sense). But if God was so powerful that He could deny His own power, He might find Himself placed in a position to choose the lesser of two evils. If the lesser of two evils happens to be a flood which wipes out the majority of humankind, I would fully expect God to do just that. When it is said that God does not do any evil, it is meant to indicate that all he does is for the good in a utilitarian sense. We all know that genocide is a bad thing. And so God obviously can commit evil. But He only does so when we force Him into choosing the lesser of two evils.

Now Jamie_L, if you did not commit genocide to save future generations, you would certainly share responsibility for their demise. But committing that genocide would be quite painful for you too. Not only would you be harming those you cared about, but they wouldn't understand why you were harming them. To them, you would appear to be evil through and through.

Jamie_L

That brings up some points for arguement, but they don't bear directly on this discussion, so I'll leave it to other threads.

I'm not sure I quite understand what you're saying here. My thought has always been that if God is omnipotent as traditionally conceived by most Christians (if not in the "scholastic" sense as you mention), he still ought to be able to solve problems without resorting to naturalistic sources of violence that indescriminantly target both the innocent and the wicked. Otherwise, he seems not only to lack omnipotence, but to be down-right restricted in his available options. This seems to me to clash with the traditional concept of God, for whom all things are possible.

Jamie

babelfish

Even more amazing, God could be pure evil right now! You have no way of knowing whether what you think is good, is really evil, because if you're a Christian, you're using God as your moral absolute. You're taking his word for it that what he represents is good, with - you believe - no other moral standard to measure him against but himself!

Jobar

I ask this question in the light of the fact that so many apologists use free will to justify the continued existence of evil. If God is ultimately free- with omnipotence, there are no limits on his possible choices- and if evil is the (or one of the) cost(s) of free will, why is God not also paying that cost? How can a perfectly benevolent and just being even *conceive* of malevolence and injustice, much less visit them upon creatures he professes to love above all else in his creation?

This is another aspect of the question "How can perfection create imperfection?"

ManM

Jamie_L,
It is also possible that those evils we attribute to God are all necessary in order to heal us and guide us back to Himself. If God was not restricted there would be no evil. We have evil, therefore, God must be restricted. And so with God, all things are possible in the sense that we have a reason to hope in our personal struggle against evil. All things are not possible for God in the sense that right now we can choose to sin regardless of His desires.

K

babelfish:

Excellent point. Maybe that's why it was good to brutally wipe out the Amelkites, but now that same act would be incredibly evil. It's just a phase for God. One of an infinite number of phases that He will be going through during His infinite existence.