Freethought & Rationalism Archive

GeoTheo · 09-04-2002, 09:36 AM

Could some people here (atheists hopefully) describe to me the Christian God they don't believe in? It may be possible I don't believe in him either. Not to say I'm an atheist but definitions of terms are important in a debate in order to avoid dabating different things.
I sense that certian peoples conception of the Christian God rightly ought not be believed in.
It also my belief that certian gods don't exist either. If we disbelieve in the same ones, that would be very interesting.

Philosoft · 09-04-2002, 09:44 AM

Not really.

I do not have a concept of any thing that can be described by the proper noun "God."

vagrant · 09-04-2002, 09:48 AM

An atheist believes in no gods, xian or otherwise. Any attempt at describing is pointless...

GT: How about one with three arms sticking out of its head that likes to eat toast?

A: Nope, not that one either.

GT: Uh, how about a shapeless blob of grape jelly that floats aimlessly in space?

A: Nuh-uh.

GT: One composed of the sound of one hand clapping?

A: No. Get the heck away from me!

GT: What about...
[and on and on]

Undercurrent · 09-04-2002, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by GeoTheo:
Could some people here (atheists hopefully) describe to me the Christian God they don't believe in?

If by this you mean "describe the properties that the christian god is said to have that cause you not to believe that no such god exists," I'd have to go with the standard omnipotent, omnicient, and benevolent trio, all of which the modern rendition of the christian god is said to posess.

m.

MrDarwin · 09-04-2002, 10:01 AM

I don't believe in a creator deity that is omniscient AND omnipotent AND omnibenevolent AND gives us free will AND sends some souls to hell because several of these attributes are mutually exclusive.

I suppose my basic objection is that if God is omniscient and omnipotent, then from the moment of creation God had to know exactly what would happen to his/her/its creation, and is thus solely responsible for everything that happens, good or evil. It would mean we only have the illusion of free will, and it makes no difference whether I believe in God or not. And there's enough evil in the world, even without talking about the concept of hell, to rule out omnibenevolence.

[ September 04, 2002: Message edited by: MrDarwin ]

Tom Sawyer · 09-04-2002, 10:59 AM

The basic God that I don't believe in is one that has the following characteristics:

1)Has any power whatsoever
2)Affects the life of any living thing whatsoever
3)Affects the universe in any way whatsoever
4)Has any evidence of existence whatsoever

GeoTheo,

For the purposes of debate, what are the characteristics of the God that you believe in?

Keith Russell · 09-04-2002, 11:10 AM

Greetings:

'God' is usually described as any combination of the following:

omniscient
omnipotent
omnipresent
supernatural
infinite

Since reality contradicts the possibility of these characteristics, these are what I do not believe. Any entity claimed to exist and possess any or all of them is not possible.

Keith.

doubtingt · 09-04-2002, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GeoTheo:
Could some people here (atheists hopefully) describe to me the Christian God they don't believe in? It may be possible I don't believe in him either. Not to say I'm an atheist but definitions of terms are important in a debate in order to avoid dabating different things.
I sense that certian peoples conception of the Christian God rightly ought not be believed in.
It also my belief that certian gods don't exist either. If we disbelieve in the same ones, that would be very interesting.

Your post highlights a very important fact.
Everyone is an atheist with respect to every
God concept except the one (or few) they selectively choose to believe in. Therefore,
the only difference between "atheists" and "theists" is that atheist do not make any
biased, unwarranted exceptions when evaluating
the plausibility of Gods.

I don't believe in entities that could be called God. As for the racist, sexist, facist, evil child killer God that is described unambiguously in the old testament, if this God did exist it would be our moral responsiblity to destroy him
and Lucifer would be the hero to aspire to.

wordsmyth · 09-04-2002, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GeoTheo:It also my belief that certian gods don't exist either. If we disbelieve in the same ones, that would be very interesting.

When you understand why you don't believe in other God(s), then you will understand why I don't believe in yours.

We are both atheists, I simply believe in one fewer god than you.

Asha'man · 09-04-2002, 05:21 PM

I don�t believe in the God described in the Old Testament. And even if I had rock solid proof that he was real, I would never worship him. He is a bloodthirsty sociopath with an obsession with death and sacrifice.

I also don�t believe in the God described in the New Testament. While kinder, the descriptions lack any credibility. And the same obsession with death and sacrifice is still present, just redirected towards himself in an oddly contradictory way.

I also don�t believe in Odin, Zeus, Ra, Osirus, Thor, Athena, and a thousand other entities fabricated by storytellers throughout history.

(typo)

[ September 04, 2002: Message edited by: Asha'man ]

09-04-2002, 09:36 AM	#1
GeoTheo Veteran Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Bemidji Posts: 1,197	The Christian God people don't believe in. Could some people here (atheists hopefully) describe to me the Christian God they don't believe in? It may be possible I don't believe in him either. Not to say I'm an atheist but definitions of terms are important in a debate in order to avoid dabating different things. I sense that certian peoples conception of the Christian God rightly ought not be believed in. It also my belief that certian gods don't exist either. If we disbelieve in the same ones, that would be very interesting.

09-04-2002, 10:01 AM	#5
MrDarwin Veteran Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 4,140	I don't believe in a creator deity that is omniscient AND omnipotent AND omnibenevolent AND gives us free will AND sends some souls to hell because several of these attributes are mutually exclusive. I suppose my basic objection is that if God is omniscient and omnipotent, then from the moment of creation God had to know exactly what would happen to his/her/its creation, and is thus solely responsible for everything that happens, good or evil. It would mean we only have the illusion of free will, and it makes no difference whether I believe in God or not. And there's enough evil in the world, even without talking about the concept of hell, to rule out omnibenevolence. [ September 04, 2002: Message edited by: MrDarwin ]</p>

09-04-2002, 05:21 PM	#10
Asha'man Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: southeast Posts: 2,526	I don�t believe in the God described in the Old Testament. And even if I had rock solid proof that he was real, I would never worship him. He is a bloodthirsty sociopath with an obsession with death and sacrifice. I also don�t believe in the God described in the New Testament. While kinder, the descriptions lack any credibility. And the same obsession with death and sacrifice is still present, just redirected towards himself in an oddly contradictory way. I also don�t believe in Odin, Zeus, Ra, Osirus, Thor, Athena, and a thousand other entities fabricated by storytellers throughout history. (typo) [ September 04, 2002: Message edited by: Asha'man ]</p>

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09-04-2002, 09:44 AM	#2
Philosoft Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Southeast of disorder Posts: 6,829	Not really. I do not have a concept of any thing that can be described by the proper noun "God."

09-04-2002, 09:48 AM	#3
vagrant Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Barrington, IL USA Posts: 130	An atheist believes in no gods, xian or otherwise. Any attempt at describing is pointless... GT: How about one with three arms sticking out of its head that likes to eat toast? A: Nope, not that one either. GT: Uh, how about a shapeless blob of grape jelly that floats aimlessly in space? A: Nuh-uh. GT: One composed of the sound of one hand clapping? A: No. Get the heck away from me! GT: What about... [and on and on]

09-04-2002, 10:59 AM	#6
Tom Sawyer Talk Freethought Staff Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Toronto, eh Posts: 42,293	The basic God that I don't believe in is one that has the following characteristics: 1)Has any power whatsoever 2)Affects the life of any living thing whatsoever 3)Affects the universe in any way whatsoever 4)Has any evidence of existence whatsoever GeoTheo, For the purposes of debate, what are the characteristics of the God that you believe in?

09-04-2002, 11:10 AM	#7
Keith Russell Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Overland Park, Kansas Posts: 1,336	Greetings: 'God' is usually described as any combination of the following: omniscient omnipotent omnipresent supernatural infinite Since reality contradicts the possibility of these characteristics, these are what I do not believe. Any entity claimed to exist and possess any or all of them is not possible. Keith.

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