Spaz

I really don't get the super fundies. Their lack of ability to see that they say incredibly stupid shit is obviously a flaw in creation

Entropic_Gnosis

Granted that this is the view that i have often encountered, but to respond i have the following questions:

1) Is God (in your Mind) all good?

If so the why, 1) would such an entity create a world and exile beings from their "true home". Possible counter: as a test of faith. counter of that: A prefectly good being would have no desire to test by hardship and pain. these things are either natural evil or moral evil.

2) is God all powerful?

If so then why does the world fail to be all good, and why does God not intervene?

In short the idea of a perfect being and the exile from the true state of things makes little sense. One could cite the fall of man i suppose but wrath and anger is something not consistant with a supremly good deity and the idea that there was disobediance to a divine command falls apart with omniscience for God would have already known.

I will grant you the idea of eternal bliss could be appealing, but why do you hope for all the torment that Revelation insists will happen? what does this accomplish?

Cipher Girl

When I was a child, I lived on the Gulf coast. It was always very exciting everytime a hurricane was in the gulf. You could see the storm getting closer and closer over the days. The storm very rarely hit where we lived. In fact it was very rare for a direct hit. But the feeling that the storm was coming was very exciting, especially when you knew that you would probably be safe.

I think it is the same way for christians and the rapture. On one level they believe that it will happen, but on another level, they don't think that it will directly affect them and that it won't happen in thier lifetime. It's the same as the threating storm, safely in the distance.

Magus55

Kinda like the stupid argument you made on the other post about the Jews getting millions of themselves killed just to fulfill a 3000 year old prophecy? Pot Kettle Black

1) God created the world with Heaven on it ( Garden of Eden), we weren't exiled until Adam and Even disobeyed God and lost perfection.

2) The world isn't all good because humans aren't good, we live in an evil infested sick world and humans are to blame. God doesn't always intervene because to do so would take away your Free will. He gave you the ability to choose good and bad. If someone chooses to go out and murder someone else, that was there choice. If God stopped them, then they never had the choice in the first place.

Just because God knows the future doesn't prevent it from happening on its own. You know that in 5 years the sun will rise the same as it does everyday. Does your foreknowledge of the sun rising, mean you are controlling the sun?

And Revelation is the final trial for the unbelieving world, Its the last chance to seek salvation from Jesus. Those who are decieved and follow the Antichrist are lost forever, those who see all the destruction from God releasing his wrath and accept Jesus as their saviour will be saved. Its also the time when God will finish what he started with Israel and his chosen people.
Revelation is the time when you have the chance to repent and seek forgiveness, after seeing God's power and judgement in action, provided you survive long enough. It is also when God throws Satan in the Lake of Fire. Its his judgement and destruction on the sinning world, but he still leaves the ability to be saved open provided you seek forgiveness before you die. Of course many people will still deny all the judgements and plagues on the Earth and will put their faith in the AntiChrist ( he decieves people into believing he's Christ) to end the judgement. God gave you your whole life to find his Truth and seek forgiveness in his Son, Jesus and then he gives one more chance after showing everyone that he is real. Those who still reject him or follow the Antichrist will have no excuse when they stand before him at the final judgement.

In a nut shell, Revelation is God's wrath and judgement being poured out on the unbelieving, sinning world where you get one last chance to receive salvation through Jesus, and when Satan his thrown in the Lake of Fire.

Corso

Hey Magus,

When is this rapture thing going to happen exactly?

2005?...... 2010?............Tommorrow?

xeren

Are you serious? I can't believe people actually believe this kind of stuff.

philechat put it better than I could put it:

Rousseau_CHN

The Pagan Roman were dearthly scared whenever they hear Christians talk about hell. It seemed like the Christians enjoy seeing pagan burn in hell.

Rousseau_CHN

Time, man, time. Get your time right.

If we were already perfect, we wouldn't disobey God. But since they--Adam and Eve--did disobey him, it only means that they weren't perfect in the first place.

Your statement: "we weren't exile until Adam and Even disobeyed God and lost perfection" is wrong even in the Theist sense.

Puck

This is exactly what I see whenever I watch our President.

southernhybrid

My parents were convinced that the rapture was at hand when I was growing up. They were always telling me I'd probably never see adulthood. Well, I made it to the age of 53. I think that although my parents still believe that shit, they have quieted down and no longer talk about the impending rapture.

You're right about one thing, Magus. This life is temporary but it's the only one we get. You better make your heaven right here on earth or you'll miss out completely. Sure there's a lot of sadness in the world, but it's been my experience that each individual has the ability to do positive things, learn to detatch themselves from all the suffering and make the best of life. It's amazing just to experience life itself. It's can be a wonderful and exciting experience. There are sources of inspiration all around us. They can come from other humans or the beauty of nature itself. Why not go out and do something positive instead of trying to antagonize people with gloom and doom predictions that are based on fear and superstition!