chekmate

Want to introduce someone to the concept that the Bible isn't perfect, what should I point to? I don't want to go into the philosophical stuff with her (she's not the sharpest knife in the drawer), but would like to point out some stuff in the bible that is just plain wrong, or absurd. Something that would make a Christian go "Hmm... that's not right."

Any suggestions?

Also, I don't really need verses, just the general ideas. Thanks.

Skeptical

As far as the NT goes, my personal favorite is the disagreement in the year of birth between Matthew and Luke. In Mat, JC's birth is 4BCE (at the earliest), in Luke it is 6CE. The difference is significant since the Gospels cannot even agree with any degree of accuracy when their founder was born. Of course, there have been many tortured attempts to reconcile this, but they are all weak and some are truly pathetic. Richard Carrier has a nice article on this little problem:

<a href="http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/richard_carrier/quirinius.html" target="_blank">http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/richard_carrier/quirinius.html</a>

What is also significant is that in the case of Mat it is clear that the date was chosen not just off the cuff, but purely to draw a parallel between the birth of Jesus and the birth of Moses. i.e. the entire narrative is constructed to demonstrate a theological point. This is clearly not just a case of "oops, we made a mistake", but explicit evangelizing and taking liberty with the story to illustrate a point.

This singular example establishes that the early writings in the Christian community were not concerned with getting the "facts" straight, but with getting converts and developing stories that gave weight to the movement. To me, this is a conclusive argument against any inerrancy claim.

No clearer example of contradiction is to be found in the NT to my knowledge and if someone still insists on inerrancy after looking at this problem, there's no point in having any further discussion with them. You might as well argue with the dead.

Sojourner553

See Section II -- especially the astericked chapters:

then pick the topic you are interested in to see the superstition exposed.

<a href="http://mac-2001.com/philo/crit/index.html" target="_blank">http://mac-2001.com/philo/crit/index.html</a>

P.S. This site takes a purely logical stance without "put-downs" to religion in general.

[ June 26, 2002: Message edited by: Sojourner553 ]</p>

Peter Kirby

I have always used as a rule of thumb that a book with at least two talking animals is not to be trusted as fact. Yet in the Bible, we find a talking snake and a talking donkey.

best,
Peter Kirby

Vinnie

"""""Want to introduce someone to the concept that the Bible isn't perfect, what should I point to?"""""

Wait a week until the first draft of a paper I am writing entitled Has the Bible become a hundrance to the proclamation of the Gospel? is complete

elusive sky

Or the two different lineages of David to Jesus. The one at Matthew 1:6 shows 28 generations from David to Jesus, and the other at Luke 3:23 shows 43 generations and different ancestors. Both are traced to Jesus' father Joseph.


Who didn't impregnate Mary.

queue

What this person is like might determine which concepts you would want to bring up. In the NT there is where women are to sit down and shut up during church, they are not to teach males, and they are to be subserviant to the males wishes.

There is the eating feces in Ezekial.

You could go to <a href="http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/index.html" target="_blank">The Skeptic's Annotated Bible</a> and look at the different catagories, and find something that will have an effect on this person.

[ June 27, 2002: Message edited by: queue ]

[ June 27, 2002: Message edited by: queue ]</p>