Benjamin Franklin

I am sure many of us have the experience of spending countless hours futilely debating our Christian friends. I just wrote an 8 page Word document to my Christian friend exposing all the intellectual double standards that she uses in debating with me. On one hand she claims skeptics cannot treat Gospels as unreliable just because the writers are biased but on the other hand she blithely dismisses many of the results of New Testament scholarship (e.g. Matthew is not an eyewitness) by saying that the New Testament scholars, many who are professing Christians themselves, are biased towards their viewpoints.

So has anyone here successfully deconverted their Christian friends and what do you think it is the best way to go about doing it?


BF

Koyaanisqatsi

Shock treatment . Or, as malai5, our recent visitor with messages from the fifth dimension put it, shock and awe treatment.

Vespertine

I wish I knew, my best friend is a devout Christian. The worst part is that she's extremely smart but only believes evolution to a point. I think they're just fooling themselves to feel good about the world.

Other than that. Knock yourself out, it isn't going to be easy.
:banghead:

winstonjen

Ironically, one Christian nun deconverted herself, simply by reading the bible and realising how ridiculous the whole thing was.

fando

I got tired of debating religion in high school. Now, thanks to college, all my good friends are atheist. There's a certain serenity in not having to deal with religion amongst friends and family. In fact, it's too serene. I come here to help vent some of the pressure I feel from religion in my life because my friends don't always care to hear it.

As for conversion, I never try because you can't convince ordinary people with reason, and even those who have critical thinking skills require time to mull over the information before being able to change opinions. It's the way our brain works... we take shortcuts in reaching opinions, usually bypassing reason, and hold on to them conservatively. The only way to change them is to encounter lots of contrary evidence. (Less if the person is trained in critical thinking.) It always takes time and effort. The only time I bother to debate is when there's an audience, so that the points I make reach many ears and thus has a greater impact.

Comquirk

Why would you try to deconvert someone? As Atheists, I like to think we're above such archaic tactics.

I live and let live myself, at least until my rights or family's are threatened. If someone is a fundy and happy, why try to take that away from them? It's probably a waste of your breath (If they try to convert *you* however, go all out on'em with your stuff. They unlock the door, you bust it down).

However, if they did try to do something asinine, like insitute prayer in the local school or restrict any of my rights, watch out assholes. No more peaceful living.

MrDarwin

I agree, we shouldn't be out trying to "deconvert" anybody. On the other hand, I do think we should challenge people to think about what they believe, and why.

meritocrat

I agree that you shouldn't attempt to 'deconvert' anybody.

I always find that debating the notion of the Trinity often stumps Christians.

Viti

ditto

I have had Christians tell me "I can't convert anyone, I can only introduce someone to the concept and let the Holy Spirit do the rest if the person will let it"...I say the same thing...we can't deconvert anyone, only question their beliefs, state our resons for not believing, and let their brain do the rest if they'll let it.

MrFrosty

Aside from the previously stated opinions that it's not your responsibility / place to deconvert ppl -- after all, you are not rescuing them from a cult and then deprogramming them (some might beg to differ though...) -- some Christians would probably look upon it as being a test of their faith, a challenge. So, in all likelihood, the harder you argue your points, the stronger they will resist. I mean, with a perceived reward of eternal life in Heaven, most Christians will refuse to adhere to any amount of reasoning even when faced with nonsense like Creationism. And, naturally, the fear of damnation is the other side of the coin.

IMO, the only way a Christian can be deconverted is through their own rational thought. I suppose it's like the Matrix: they have to see it for themselves. The convinction has to come from them even if it begins with a tiny seed of doubt, noticing an inconsistency for instance.

I would imagine that most Christians are comforted by their religion, it's an emotional crutch to use in times of need -- a safety blanket that makes life easier to live from day to day. For some, it's an integral part of who they are having grown up with it; it is a core part of their existence and it is extremely difficult to penetrate that type of indoctrination. I think it is therefore intrusive to attempt any type of deconversion, quite aside from the practical difficulties of actually achieving such a goal.