LeftCoast

I'm pretty sure that Beelze was referring to the US invasion of the Phillipines during the Spanish American War in 1898, not the US-lead invasion to dislodge the Japanese in 1944.

If I recall correctly, after the former, there was a rather brutal effort to put-down the Phillipine independence movement.

Euromutt

Be that as it may, American "Conservative Christians" are not being forced to live in ghettos, wear badges distinguishing them from "proper people", sign over their businesses to non-Christians, being rounded up, loaded in trains, taken to concentration camps and exterminated.
With arguably the exception of the ghetto point, neither are the Palestinians.

So can we all agree that this Nazi/Jews comparison is utterly bogus?

Beelzebub

Left Coast- That is exactly what I was referring to. Euromutt- Yes.

Orpheous99

Don't think that they wouldn't if they could. Most Palestinians are not even allowed to own property under the Israelis. The comparison is closes where the Israelis are blaming the Palestinians for just about everything which is going wrong. For example that recent Iragian shipment of weapons which the Israelis stopped claiming that it was Palestinian instead. The Israelis don't even bother to present evidence for their claims they just assert that they "suspect" it. It seems that all the Israelis need is to "suspect" someone or something to make it true to justify them killing someone or destroying something.

[ January 09, 2002: Message edited by: Orpheous99 ]</p>

ModularGod

I MUST apologize for my own confusion RE: the Phillipine 'invasion' .... late 19th Century political history is hardly a strong suit with me.

Nevertheless: ..... attempting to justify invasive and oppressive actions because other invasive and oppressive actions have occurred is disingenous at least, and commits a Tu quoque fallacy as well ....

One can only assume that you wish to justify such actions as long as it doesnt supercede the WORST actions of another country: hardly a valid prescription for world peace. Brutal suppression of innocents is NEVER right, even when committed by your OWN country, and the existence of such illegitimate behaviours doesnt further justify the behaviour.

In the end .... These comparisons bring nothing to the argument about the parallels between the Taliban and the Christian Fundamentalist mindset .... SURELY their are similarites and differences ....

In my OWN mind, I could not in all honesty say that our own Christian Fundamentalists would NOT revert to the early behaviours exhibited by the earlier church if given half a chance, and a theocratic system with which to implement their Holy Agenda.

The period of catholic theocracy was a time of ignorance .... please: ... lets NOT go back there.

Beelzebub

Mod- Wrong assumption. I was not attempting to justify anything, just point out (as you also do) that using the nazi's = israeli's rhetoric is the same cheap shot that the conservative christians use. Use of the word nazi just raises blood pressure. A little balance is all I'm looking for.

Orph- Why do you get so unreasonable when it comes to this subject? Let's see, the captain of the ship admits he is a paletinian, a member of Al-Fatah (Arafats politcal party) since 1976 and he certainly thought that the arms were going to Palestine. Now, the palestinians have killed 4 soldiers in retaliation (again, thier own words) for the seizure. Obviously they felt that the arms were coming to them. So, either Arafat knew of the shipment and just went ahead re-arming anyway, not intending to obey a cease-fire, or he didn't know about it which would make anyone question his fitness to run a state.
Oddly enough, the palestinians have been quite well-armed for 50 yrs now, and have no local arms industry.Where did you suppose they got thier weapons from, Allah?

Orpheous99

It is irrelevant if the captian were a Palestinian. The Israelis are asserting that it was the Palestinian Authority involved. Wasn't it Hamas which killed those Israelis?

Beelzebub

Al-Fatah is to Hamas like Sinn Fein is to the IRA. Makes one wonder who (if anyone ) is in charge. You evidently want Israel to hand over a state to terrorists. It will be amusing to watch Arafat try to dance out of this one.

Euromutt

Okay, I'm going to take this comparison as far as will (or, rather, will not) go. The NSDAP fomented hate against Jews who had been living in Germany all their lives, had in many cases served and fought in the German army during World War I, were law-abiding, tax-paying citizens, who never raised a hand against their fellow Germans more than any non-Jewish German had in the normal daily course of events.
Now to the Palestinians, who departed Palestine upon the declaration of the State of Israel, expecting to return with victorious Arab armies (oops!) and who spent the next four decades suporting an organisation that professed the goal of wiping out the State of Israel.
Israeli citizens of Arab ethnicity and Islamic faith, however, are. So the Israelis have some laws slanted against people who voluntarily left the country and profess loyalty to an organisation that aims to wipe out the State of Israel? Well, <img src="graemlins/boohoo.gif" border="0" alt="[Boo Hoo]" />
Since we're two generations down the line, so it's not fair and just (any more), but it's a long shot from dispossessing loyal citizens. (Note also that "Palestinians" - i.e. those who left in 1948 and their descendants, as opposed to those who stayed and are now "Arab Israelis" - are not citizens or legal residents of the State of Israel.)

[ January 10, 2002: Message edited by: Euromutt ]</p>

Orpheous99

Which IRA would that be?

I only want them to hand over what they have been stealing and to stop their oppressing of the Palestinians. Would you condemn the Kurds if they fought back against Saddame?