Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Cipher Girl · 08-22-2002, 07:23 PM

Amos, I'm not the one who said that the Catholic priest penis was to be adored.

What are you smoking man? Perhaps that is why it can do no wrong? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

Bible Humper · 08-22-2002, 08:08 PM

Howdy Amos,

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You must have been reading protestant theology to think that there ever was any fanaticism in the Catholic Church. If anything the opposite is true.

Ha! Crusades, inquisitions, and the Thirty Years War, oh my!

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We have the divine comedies and "incorruptables" while the protestants have the tragedies and "spontaneous combustions" at the foot of the cross. We have the saints and they have the witches. We have confessionals to prove our sinfulness and they have the self proclaimed "saved sinner" complex. We don't have to read scriptures or study the bible while they have to burn daily scriptures to stay afloat. Do you really think that Catholicism was ever different than it is now? It can't be, in fact it always was much freer, especially before the Reformation.

ROFLMAO, well I suppose that "freer" is one way to put it....

This is that proud period of Catholic history when it was common, for those who were wealthy enough, to purchase an indulgance that would allow them to rape one of their tenents and be completely blameless before the eyes of Yahweh, thanks to their "great deed"(bribe). "Freedom" before the Reformation indeed...

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I really don't want to become part of the argument but just write in defence of the philosophy behind Catholicism.

Cool, that's why I left most of the post alone.

Next post:

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Of course they are because they invented the Church for the betterment of mankind.

Good one, that was almost as good as Pisscal's wager!

Seriously, is it really necessary for me to dredge up all the dirt on the church from throughout her history? I can imagine that you already know the sorts of behavior I would bring up, so why don't we cut to the chase and hear your rationale for why the historical Catholic atrocities were for our own good and not the church's own good.

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Many will return to the Church and others will just be great outside of the Church. None will return to the flock where they would be under the conviction of religion and religious laws. They are Christians now, and it is impossible to be both Catholic and Christian or Jesus could have been Jew and Christian.

Eh? I've heard protestants say that Catholics aren't real christians, but I've never heard a Catholic say so. Is there some meaning to the word "christian" that doesn't apply? As far as I know, "christian" means "follower of christ"....

I didn't catch the meaning of "christians in becoming".

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The sacrament of confession is a courage builder for sinners to continue and sin some more because if three hail Mary's can clear you conscience it was cheap and may well be worth another visit.

Heh, well I will grant you that at least this particular aspect of your personal interpretation is much more palatable that the Catholic one...

I can just imagine the raised eyebrows that this statement would cause if a mainstream catholic theologian saw it though...

"Confession is designed to encourage sin"

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Catholics must lose their faith because only knowledge frees.

What would you imagine the reaction of a catholic priest would be to this statement?

One of the Popes is on record as saying, regarding books; "reading could lead to too much thought, which leads to heresy", not only does it contradict what you have said here, it seems to accurately describe what happened to you!

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The Church is inspired and very clever.

Depends on what you mean by "inspired". They can be quite clever, though they have also been known to make foolish decisions...

[ August 22, 2002: Message edited by: Bible Humper/ SCoW ] <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" />

[ August 22, 2002: Message edited by: Bible Humper/ SCoW ]

[ August 22, 2002: Message edited by: Bible Humper/ SCoW ]

[ August 22, 2002: Message edited by: Bible Humper/ SCoW ]

Bree · 08-22-2002, 08:22 PM

Watch it, Amos!

I've cast an evil spell on you. The Dark Goddess is far more powerful than any God of Man!

Merry Part!
Bree
(the thrice-initiated Priestess)

))O((

08-23-2002, 04:49 AM

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Originally posted by Cipher Girl:
Amos, I'm not the one who said that the Catholic priest penis was to be adored.

What are you smoking man? Perhaps that is why it can do no wrong?

For the record, please show me where I wrote that the Catholic priests penis was to be adored.

08-23-2002, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bible Humper/ SCoW:

This is that proud period of Catholic history when it was common, for those who were wealthy enough, to purchase an indulgance that would allow them to rape one of their tenents and be completely blameless before the eyes of Yahweh, thanks to their "great deed"(bribe). "Freedom" before the Reformation indeed...

Indulgences are very effective and were never a "flat rate" ticket to heaven. The amount and method of payment always varied and was levied to make the faith journey of the believer more or most difficult. Here too, indulgences were not a civil matter and never a payment to the state for the remission of civil disobedience.

Indulgences were not bribes but they were additional charges (if you wish) that were added to the regular penance towards the forgiveness of sin. The amounts often varied with the believers ability to pay and at times seemed unreasonable which was the purpose of them from the onset. Good examples of this can be found in the lives of Russia's great authors who found their own mental liberation while in exile.

Here is how they work. I hope you understand by now that Catholicism is a religion for sinners and so it functions only for believers during their involutionary period of life. [[As a side note, this distinctions must be made to indicate that Catholics also know an evolutionary period in life (commonly called heaven) which is not known to protestants because they all want to die during the involutionay period and hope that things will get better after they die]].

If I would call the involutionary period of life equal to our journey West (from East of Eden and into the jungle of life), it would be the case that indulgences make this journey West more difficult and uphill if you allow me to use uphill as a means to describe the added burden imposed by indulgences in times of spiritual prosperity.

The sometimes extraordinary indulgence would provoke the crisis moment in life and bring about a change of heart (metanoia) and send the now liberated believer on a "downhill" jouney back to Eden. The term "plenary indulgence" speaks on this because after the turning point sin is no more (1Jn.3:9). So yes, indulgences can be very effective but never a prepaid ticket to molest little girls and little boys for example.

. . . so why don't we cut to the chase and hear your rationale for why the historical Catholic atrocities were for our own good and not the church's own good.

Because the Church is not a corporation but is the gathering place for the civilizations wealth and richess. These are freely given to the Church because freely they have received who have been liberated from their own satanic oppression. Rome is like a giant potlatch gathering wherein the storehouse of wealth, beauty and richess is unlimited for those with spiritual needs. 

Eh? I've heard protestants say that Catholics aren't real christians, but I've never heard a Catholic say so. Is there some meaning to the word "christian" that doesn't apply? As far as I know, "christian" means "follower of christ"....

I didn't catch the meaning of "christians in becoming".

Sorry I did not mean to trip you. Protestants are different, indeed, but they are not what I would call "real Christians." It is true that Catholics are not Christians because they are still under the conviction of the law to make them sinners. When Catholics are set free from the law (during the crisis moment I described above) they become followers of Jesus (Jesuits) and as such are they Christians-in-becomeing because it was not until his own resurrection that Jesus became Christ. So the dual nature of Christ must be born unto Catholics before they become followers of Jesus and it is not until their own resurrection that Catholics become Christians (freedom from religion and religious oppression and thus no longer Catholic).

To be sure, it is impossible to be a follower of Christ because Jesus did not become Christ until his own resurrection after which time he left the scene and so it is impossible to be a follower of Christ.

To make this clear we can compare salvation with metamorphosis which now means that protestants think that you can white-wash greedy caterpillars to make them look like butterflies. It is because of this that Catholics do not wish to become like protestants and much rather be "cold" Catholics than "lukewarm" protestants who crash every time they try to spread their wings (hence the broom image). 

Heh, well I will grant you that at least this particular aspect of your personal interpretation is much more palatable that the Catholic one...

I can just imagine the raised eyebrows that this statement would cause if a mainstream catholic theologian saw it though...

"Confession is designed to encourage sin" 

It may not a good idea to ask directions from people who are following a leader but it is much worse to ask directions from people who are going the wrong way.

Sacraments are like a double edged sword or they would not be sacret. Remember here that in heaven there is no supernatural.

What would you imagine the reaction of a catholic priest would be to this statement?

One of the Popes is on record as saying, regarding books; "reading could lead to too much thought, which leads to heresy", not only does it contradict what you have said here, it seems to accurately describe what happened to you!

The priest is the shepard and cannot get lost as long as he remains with the Dogmatic Constitution of the Church. But he is no philosopher and that is what he must understand.

Heresy is inevitable when curious eyes are reading (remember Luther and Hitler?). It is my opnion that unless you write your own gospel you should not read someone elses gospel, hence the literary censorship rule. 

Depends on what you mean by "inspired". They can be quite clever, though they have also been known to make foolish decisions...

The difficulty is that religion is a game of pretension (man made) and it is the urgency of the speaker (the Church) that must attract the followers. What may come across as foolishness to the outsider could very well be the best tool at the time--such as indulgences and confessionals because I have briefly discussed them here.

brighid · 08-23-2002, 07:25 AM

Ab Normal

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brighid, I'd ask to join, but I don't believe in wonderous pee pee removing powers. Darn it

EITHER DO I

So, please feel free to join. We have no dogma in the House of the Goddess!

Merry Meet, Merry Part and Merry Meet Again,

B

08-23-2002, 09:43 AM

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Originally posted by brighid:
Ab Normal

EITHER DO I

So, please feel free to join. We have no dogma in the House of the Goddess!

Merry Meet, Merry Part and Merry Meet Again,

B

. . . just the cantankerous epistle of Amos to feed the spell of the Goddess.

08-23-2002, 08:01 PM

Say Bible Humper, one last word if I may, please.

So now that you know where the witch imagery comes from it is easy to conclude that the priesthood is for males only and that excommunication was the proper solution to the problem presented in this tread (thanks DMB).

You may object and argue that there are male witches, which, of course is true. The difference between males and females is that females can only become witches which does not mean that all female priestesses would become witches. The point is that a metaphysical jump-shift looms ahead that females can't make. Females can certainly jump but they can't shift when they jump because they are already females. On page one I posted that the idiot priest is resident of the conscious mind and must be annihilated in this jump shift. A good example of this is the pivotal speach made by Mark Anthony just after Ceasar was slain.

This now goes into the psychological neutering of heaven and this is where I stop. Paul talks about this with regard to marriage and anything more would just become a defence for Paul and not Cardinal Ratzinger.

I't been fun and please know that I write for my own pleasure.

Cipher Girl · 08-23-2002, 08:36 PM

Amos, now who said the following?

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But men are not obsessed with their penis but the penis must be prized and admired and adored to be called into existence or did you not know that the metaphysical must precede the physical?

Amos, I've been to mass lots of times with my husband's family and I've never heard of the "Adoration of the Penis" before.

Hey Brigid and Bonduca, would me and Wicked Wanda get to join the coven?

DMB this thread has had me rolling with laughter the last couple of days. Absolutely hysterical. I guess the answer to your origional question (according to Amos) is that the Penis can do no wrong and is the link to the "twain mind" and god?

Talk about another example of men overrating "The Penis". The religious version of the monster truck.

Amos seems to have dug his own grave for his argument in this thread.

[Edited for spelling CG]

[ August 23, 2002: Message edited by: Cipher Girl ]

Bible Humper · 08-23-2002, 08:47 PM

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Say Bible Humper, one last word if I may, please.

No problem, Amos.

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So now that you know where the witch imagery comes from it is easy to conclude that the priesthood is for males only and that excommunication was the proper solution to the problem presented in this tread (thanks DMB).

Actually, I now have an understanding of your particular explanation, and why it justifies a harsher punishment than pedophilia, but I still haven't the foggiest idea what the official position is.

I haven't forgotten about what you said regarding the position of the priests....

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Me:

I can just imagine the raised eyebrows that this statement would cause if a mainstream catholic theologian saw it though...

"Confession is designed to encourage sin"

Amos:

It may not a good idea to ask directions from people who are following a leader but it is much worse to ask directions from people who are going the wrong way.

...but since you don't represent the majority view your own interpretations have been interesting, but not what DMB was seeking(The Vatican's explanation).

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You may object and argue that there are male witches, which, of course is true. The difference between males and females is that females can only become witches which does not mean that all female priestesses would become witches. The point is that a metaphysical jump-shift looms ahead that females can't make. Females can certainly jump but they can't shift when they jump because they are already females. On page one I posted that the idiot priest is resident of the conscious mind and must be annihilated in this jump shift. A good example of this is the pivotal speach made by Mark Anthony just after Ceasar was slain.

I understand your particular theology's stance regarding this, though I'm still amazed that you consider Shakespeare's Macbeth an accurate source of information regarding witches.

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I't been fun and please know that I write for my own pleasure.

I hear ya, if you didn't find it fun you wouldn't have a post count even 1% of what you've got!

I'll see ya around, Amos.

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08-22-2002, 07:23 PM	#191
Cipher Girl Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Sunny Southern California Posts: 657	Amos, I'm not the one who said that the Catholic priest penis was to be adored. What are you smoking man? Perhaps that is why it can do no wrong? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

08-22-2002, 08:22 PM	#193
Bree Veteran Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Twin Cities, USA Posts: 3,197	Watch it, Amos! I've cast an evil spell on you. The Dark Goddess is far more powerful than any God of Man! Merry Part! Bree (the thrice-initiated Priestess) ))O((

08-23-2002, 08:01 PM	#198
Amos Guest Posts: n/a	Say Bible Humper, one last word if I may, please. So now that you know where the witch imagery comes from it is easy to conclude that the priesthood is for males only and that excommunication was the proper solution to the problem presented in this tread (thanks DMB). You may object and argue that there are male witches, which, of course is true. The difference between males and females is that females can only become witches which does not mean that all female priestesses would become witches. The point is that a metaphysical jump-shift looms ahead that females can't make. Females can certainly jump but they can't shift when they jump because they are already females. On page one I posted that the idiot priest is resident of the conscious mind and must be annihilated in this jump shift. A good example of this is the pivotal speach made by Mark Anthony just after Ceasar was slain. This now goes into the psychological neutering of heaven and this is where I stop. Paul talks about this with regard to marriage and anything more would just become a defence for Paul and not Cardinal Ratzinger. I't been fun and please know that I write for my own pleasure.

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