Seeker630

I just returned from Michigan where I visited my relatives for the holidays. I have a 6 yr old nephew who attends 1st grade in a small town public school. I had a discussion with my sister about his progress at school when she brought up the fact that at some point in the day, the class breaks for about half an hour, so that those who care to can walk across the highway to a church (I'm not sure what the dinomination is) where they can "learn about Jesus". Parents have to sign permission slips in advance to let the kids attend who want to. From what she told me, a little less than half of the kids go and the rest stay at the school.

I asked her why she gave permission, and she told me that it was because my nephew was getting pressured (the usual peer/group stuff) to go along with the program. She had no idea what the other half of the kids are doing during this time period, as it it is separate from their lunch period. Now understand that my sister is a recovering Catholic (like me) and want's nothing to do with that religion. I consider her something of a Deist or maybe a very loose kind of Christian, and neither she nor my brother-in-law ever attend church. So I found this behavior on her part rather perplexing.

But that aside, has anyone else in here ever had any experience with such a situation? Is this a violation of CSS? I'm not really sure since there is no tax money involved.

I'd like to see your opinions. I'm of the position that it is some kind of violation because it happens on school time, and the school day is not any longer to make up for it. It is at the very least unethical as far as I can see. I mean why couldn't they have something after school or just send their kids to Sunday School on the weekends? Why does this shit have to be during the school day?

nj_heathens

Why do you say there is no tax money involved? You say 6-year olds are walking "across the highway" to get to this church. I assume, I certainly hope, that someone (an adult) is supervising this road crossing, no matter how small the town. Unless it is a parent or other volunteer, tax dollars are being used to pay a teacher or other school employee to help the kids cross the highway. That makes it a school sponsored activity.

Also, if less than half of the students are leaving the school to go to the church, I don't see why the "peer pressure" would be so heavy. Now, if the pressure is coming from the teacher, principal or an administrator, then I'd say the school is ripe for a legal challenge.

Mrs. Heathen

lisarea

I'd look at this a couple of ways.

What are the minimum requirements for school attendance? I think they specify how many hours of instruction time are required to fulfill your state's requirements.

Bingo. Here are the minimum requirements:

One of two things is probably happening: Either the children who go to church are not receiving the minimum instructional time (unless they want to claim that the church attendance counts as instructional time, in which case, the violation is clear), or the children not attending are being forced to extend their non-instructional time in school to accommodate the children who are attending.

It'd help to know what the kids who don't go to church are doing during that time. The only even remotely reasonable excuse I can think of would be that they're at recess. In which case, it would certainly suck to be a church kid, and I'd imagine this would cause some behavioral problems in those kids if they're not getting an opportunity to run around and let off some steam.

On top of that, with the permission slip requirement and such, it sure looks like a violation to me. Regardless of whether it's required, it's not simply an 'open campus' type situation. It's not as though these six year olds are just being set loose for that time to do what they will and worship at their institution of choice, smoke pot, go buy Slurpees, or whatever. It sounds more along the lines of a daily field trip or something, and as such, it does have the endorsement of the school.

Does the "learn about Jesus" quote come from the school?

trunks2k

Depending on the specifics of it all, it seems illegal. Clearly innappropriate, but not necessarily illegal. This seems to be cutting into instructional time, which if this is the case it is illegal. And also if the day is extended a half hour to make up for the time, you still have to pay the teachers for that half hour which has been set aside specifically for children to "learn about Jesus".

There is ample time during the week, whether it be on the weekend or afterschool, for children to go to church. There is no reason that the school needs to cut into school time specifically to allow kids to go to church. If there was already a break in the middle of the day to begin with and the church was offering the class and the school simply allows children to go, I guess it is OK. But they should not be promoting it at all and only do it if parents calls the school and requests their child be allowed to attend during the break.

beejay

Here’s a link to some basic information from The Rutherford Institute on released time for religious instruction.
Although I disagree with them on what the First Amendment means, I think this is probably a fair description of the law. As you can see, a number of states allow released time programs, including Michican.

Rutherford Institute pdf

It is troubling, as trunks2k points out, that some students are being short-changed to allow this religious education during the school day. However, it seems to be the law.

Another review from a Christian website:

Released time

The Zorach decision was made in 1952 and a lot has changed since then. However, I don’t know of any legal challenges that might have been made to Zorach.

Seeker630

thanks beejay. After reading that paper you had the link to it pretty much says they can do it. Still damned annoying though.