Freethought & Rationalism Archive

MortalWombat · 03-28-2003, 01:09 PM

Quote:

I know this may be insane. It might sound crazy... But is there a possibility an innocent mistake was made? (gasp!).
I'm recalling a saying that says "stop picking the fly shit out of the pepper".

Here are some more innocent mistakes, from Zar's link above:

Quote:

Here, then, is a list of stories that have been widely misreported or poorly reported so far:

1. Saddam may well have been killed in the first night's surprise attack (March 20).

2. Even if he wasn't killed, Iraqi command and control was no doubt "decapitated" (March 22).

3. Umm Qasr has been taken (March 22).

4. Most Iraqis soldiers will not fight for Saddam and instead are surrendering in droves (March 22).

5. Iraqi citizens are greeting Americans as liberators (March 22).

6. An entire division of 8,000 Iraqi soldiers surrendered en masse near Basra (March 23).

7. Several Scud missiles, banned weapons, have been launched against U.S. forces in Kuwait (March 23).

8. Saddam's Fedayeen militia are few in number and do not pose a serious threat (March 23).

9. Basra has been taken (March 23).

10. Umm Qasr has been taken (March 23).

11. A captured chemical plant likely produced chemical weapons (March 23).

12. Nassiriya has been taken (March 23).

13. Umm Qasr has been taken (March 24).

14. The Iraqi government faces a "major rebellion" of anti-Saddam citizens in Basra (March 24).

15. A convoy of 1,000 Iraqi vehicles and Republican Guards are speeding south from Baghdad to engage U.S. troops (March 25).

So are they picking the fly shit out of the pepper, or picking the pepper out of the fly shit?

Mr. Superbad · 03-28-2003, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lamma
I know this may be insane. It might sound crazy... But is there a possibility an innocent mistake was made? (gasp!).
I'm recalling a saying that says "stop picking the fly shit out of the pepper".

Here's a suggestion they could follow... If they don't have evidence, they should shut the hell up. It seems as if all skepticism has been cast aside lately.

Viti · 03-28-2003, 01:55 PM

I am working under an old addage currently "Believe none of what you hear and half of what you see"

I try to read both sides every day and assume the truth lies somewhere between them

Zar · 03-28-2003, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lamma
I know this may be insane. It might sound crazy... But is there a possibility an innocent mistake was made? (gasp!).
I'm recalling a saying that says "stop picking the fly shit out of the pepper".

Any number of things could explain these "errors". You can cling to "innocent mistake" as the explanation for all of them if you like, though I find that to be a bit beyond the pale to think so. We have hard evidence of so many "mistakes" from these governments during the lead up to and prosecution of this war so far -- some quite egregious -- that their credibility should be at least subject to verification. If nothing else, you should realize they are not gods who ne'er do wrong, and whom we should never scrutinize. If you want to chalk it all up to human error and incompetence, be my guest, but realize that much of the rest of the world is not so easily fooled, nor do they treat it lightly, especially when they are the ones being bombed.

ybnormal · 03-28-2003, 02:44 PM

Quote:

From Zar's article:
The problem, I suggested, is that most of the TV commentators on the home front appear to be just as "embedded" with the military as the far braver reporters now in the Iraqi desert.

Oh, it's MUCH worse than even that... surely, there is absolutely nothing more important to the alleged democracy we pretend to offer Iraq... and with that in mind, what could possibly be worse than this?

Quote:

U.S. Media Applaud Bombing of Iraqi TV

When Iraqi TV offices in Baghdad were hit by a U.S missile strike on March 25, the targeting of media was strongly criticized by press and human rights groups. The general secretary of the International Federation of Journalists, Aidan White, suggested that "there should be a clear international investigation into whether or not this bombing violates the Geneva Conventions." White told Reuters (3/26/03), "Once again, we see military and political commanders from the democratic world targeting a television network simply because they don't like the message it gives out."
[...]
Some U.S. journalists, however, have not shown much concern about the targeting of Iraqi journalists. Prior to the bombing, some even seemed anxious to know why the broadcast facilities hadn't been attacked yet. Fox News Channel's John Gibson wondered (3/24/03): "Should we take Iraqi TV off the air? Should we put one down the stove pipe there?" Fox's Bill O'Reilly (3/24/03) agreed: "I think they should have taken out the television, the Iraqi television.... Why haven't they taken out the Iraqi television towers?" MSNBC correspondent David Shuster offered: "A lot of questions about why state-run television is allowed to continue broadcasting. After all, the coalition forces know where those broadcast towers are located." On CNBC, Forrest Sawyer offered tactical alternatives to bombing (3/24/03): "There are operatives in there. You could go in with sabotage, take out the building, you could take out the tower."
[...]
After the facility was struck, some reporters expressed satisfaction. CNN's Aaron Brown (3/25/03) recalled that "a lot of people wondered why Iraqi TV had been allowed to stay on the air, why the coalition allowed Iraqi TV to stay on the air as long as it did."

The critical question to me, regarding all of these false stories is which ones have been purposely leaked/created by the US/UK government agents/military. Those are the only ones that really interest me. I ain't one of you guys who love to bitch about "the media", simply because way too many folks want to manipulate/silence what is supposed to be a "Free" Press. Ones who do that can't possibly separate themselves from the above article or even Fox News itself.

You either have a "Free" press or you do not. IOW, if the press is truly free, then it must be free to choose to be a mouthpiece for whomever it favors. We ALL do this individually on one level or another at one time or another. Personally, I don't see a dime's worth of difference between Fox News and Al Jazeera... they are both pushing the envelope, breaking new ground and pissing folks off, and that's always a good thing IMO in the "media" world. It makes us think outside the box.

Peace!

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03-28-2003, 01:55 PM	#23
Viti Contributor Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Down South Posts: 12,879	I am working under an old addage currently "Believe none of what you hear and half of what you see" I try to read both sides every day and assume the truth lies somewhere between them

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